AMY PORTERFIELD: Ever wonder what would happen if Online Marketing Made Easy and E! News came together? Well, you're about to find out, because today I have some very special, not to mention celebrity-status, guests joining me. And that's right. You're getting two guests in this interview, which is a lot of fun.
Their names are Jason Kennedy and Giuliana Rancic, and you may know them from many years on E! News. What you may not know about them is that aside from being experts in front of the camera, they are also entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs who have a digital course, in fact. I just love that. So tune in because they're spilling all of their industry secrets and more.
INTRO: I'm Amy Porterfield, and this is Online Marketing Made Easy.
AMY: Being on video is often a big part of being a digital-course creator. Actually, I'll go ahead and say it. It's a big part of being an online entrepreneur. But just because of that doesn't mean it's easy or comfy to be in front of the camera. It actually takes some skill and a whole lot of practice.
My guests happen to be the experts at being in front of the camera. And if you've ever watched Jason or Giuliana on E! News or the red carpet, which for the record, I have watched for years and years and years, so I try to be cool on this interview, but what I didn't tell them is I am huge fans of theirs. I have been watching E! News since I was really young. So to have them on the show, knowing what experts they are, was a really big thrill for me, just for the record. But also, if you ever saw Jason or Giuliana on E! News or on the red carpet, you know that they make it look seamless. They keep us engaged, they make us laugh, and they make going off the cuff look really, really easy.
To be honest, nowadays, I can definitely go off the cuff pretty easily, but it took me a very long time to feel comfortable. And I was curious if it took them a long time to get to the comfort level they have now on camera. I'll let them speak for that. But I learned a lot about both of them on this interview, and it reminded me that, again, practice makes perfect, and you've got to just roll with the punches and have fun while you're doing it. I think that was probably my biggest takeaway: relax, have fun, just go out and put yourself out there in the most authentic way and you will definitely get the hang of it if you stick with it. So, isn't that like everything in life? But today we're talking video.
So in this interview, we talk about the best piece of advice they've ever received in their career, how to go off the cuff without getting all worked up, how to be engaging, and my personal favorite, they both are sharing some of their most nervous moments on camera. And Jason tells a story about Julia Roberts that I absolutely love. Oh, and we talk about self-tanner. We'll get to all of it. So stick around and find out what happens on this interview, because it's a lot of fun. Let's get to it.
Well, well, well, welcome to the show, Jason and Giuliana. I'm so excited to have you here.
JASON KENNEDY: Thanks, Amy.
GIULIANA RANCIC: We’re so excited to be here, Amy. Thanks for having us.
AMY: Okay. I typically don't interview two people at once, so I'm just going to ask you, because you both have worked together for a long time, how do you know who goes first? Like, how do you figure that out?
JASON: It’s usually seniority, and in this case, that would be Giuliana.
AMY: So you went first. So explain yourself, Jason. You said hello first.
GIULIANA: He didn’t lie.
JASON: I wanted to be a gentleman and just kind of chime in, and then, since Giuliana has been in the business longer than me, I think she should always answer first on this podcast because that’s the only thing that’s fair.
GIULIANA: I love how Jason says senior—Jason, first of all, you met my age. I feel like you’ve met—
JASON: No, I didn’t.
AMY: He’s rude. Jason, rude.
GIULIANA: Jason loves to point out that I’m older than him. Fine. I call him little brother, okay, so I make it very clear that I am older, of course. But, yeah. You know what? I don't know, Amy. I think we've worked together so long that Jason and I seriously are like family. We're like brother and sister. We really are. And we just understand each other. So, like, Amy, you'll ask a question, and we just kind of know who wants to take that answer first. So let's see. I don't know. Maybe we might be talking all over each other during this interview, so who knows?
AMY: And that’s okay, too. That’s okay, too. But I have to say, I've gotten to talk to both of you on Zoom calls and phone calls in the past. And every time—I'm not even joking—my cheeks hurt at the end of our conversations because you two tease each other so much that I'm laughing the whole time. I mean, brother and sister is exactly it. I'm assuming—how long have you two worked together?
GIULIANA: Well, we worked together, I guess over sixteen years, right? We met—how many years ago did we meet, Jason, sixteen, seventeen years ago?
JASON: Yeah. It’s been sixteen years. And I remember vividly that day. It was 2005. That was the year. I believe September was the month. And you were doing E! News from Times Square in New York City, and I’d just finished filing my first report in L.A., and I was so green and nervous. And I went over to your cubicle. You, obviously, weren’t there. And I wrote on this sticky note, and I said, “It’s a pleasure.” Something like, “Giuliana, a pleasure to finally work with you. Thanks for being so sweet via satellite.” And I put that on your desk. And that was the start of a great friendship, because I was a nervous twenty-three-year-old kid, and I didn’t know what to do with my hands. I didn’t know what to do. I thought maybe I was smiling too much. I thought I was yelling. And finally, you were the first one to say, “All right. Let me help you. Let me help you get comfortable,” and I knew we were going to be best friends after that.
GIULIANA: And he was yelling a lot on set, and he’s still yelling today. Jason, either your audio was very high, or you’re yelling.
JASON: Having done a lot of broadcasts. I feel like I was on the red carpet. Do you want me to take it down a notch?
JASON: I was a theater geek, here. I’m sorry, Amy.
AMY: It's all good. It's all good. But I love it. She will always put you in your place, so I don't even need to mention it. She’s got you.
Okay. So, I just jumped right in, but I didn’t even give you each a chance. I want you to tell our listeners a little bit about who you are and basically what you do, because today we're talking lots about video, and video is what you both know really well, especially live video, but also prerecorded. And these are things that my students struggle with, ask me questions about all the time. So you are in the perfect audience to be talking about this. But you both have very unique backgrounds. I don't typically have celebrities on this show, I just want you to know. So each of you have to tell my listeners a little bit about you and what you do.
GIULIANA: Yeah. So I can start. I'm Giuliana Rancic. I started at E! twenty years ago exactly, as a reporter for E! News. And a few years later, I became the anchor of E! News, and I did that for many years until I retired from that position. And I continued on with E!, hosting all their big red-carpet shows, which I actually just retired from very, very recently from that, after twenty years of doing that. And let me tell you, I mean, professionally, an incredible twenty years. E! is my second home. I'm lucky enough to be continuing on with E! and the NBC Universal family. E! is part of that family. And so I'm lucky enough to have a great development deal with them and continue on.
So now I'm doing more stuff behind the camera, Amy. I mean, actually, I talked to—
GIULIANA: Yeah. I talked to them the other day. We had a big kind of pitch call, and I gave them some of the ideas that I was developing for them, and everything from, well, I'll tell you one in particular that we're really developing right now is something in the home space. So whether it's—
GIULIANA: —me being on camera, me and my husband being on camera, or other people being on camera and me producing, that's just something that I'm really passionate about right now. But basically, my area of expertise has been interviewing, hosting for the past couple of decades, and sharing that information with people.
But from that experience from the past twenty years, I’ve also been able to build businesses where I continue to travel and speak around the world to different groups. So I'm very, very comfortable with being on a stage, being on camera, using my voice, speaking in public. And I know that's something that's not so easy for many people, and it wasn't easy for me at one time in my life. So that's something that I love sharing, and that's why I'm excited to be here today to talk more about that.
AMY: Oh, yes. I’ve got lots of questions. I want your advice on the different things that you’ve done in the past to get to where you are with being so comfortable on video. So we’re going to get to that.
AMY: Okay, Jason. You’re up, my friend.
JASON: Wow. That was a very lengthy into, Giuliana.
Well, a little bit about myself.
AMY: I can’t. I can’t talk with you two.
GIULIANA: Okay. Jason, first of all, I love how he says that, and then watch how long his is. Okay. I’m going to time it—
GIULIANA: —so ready, go.
AMY: Ready, go.
JASON: It was 1993. I was down in Miami at Channel 7, and I realized I want to be a newscaster. Truthfully, my friend took me down to a studio in Miami, Channel 7, the FOX station down there. I was in fifth grade, and the sportscaster brought me on, and he asked me some question, and I was a total deer in headlights. I didn't even know what the heck I was talking about. And I went home, and I said, “I think I'm obsessed with this business.” And I put up a bed sheet. I took my mom's Hi8—remember those little mini Hi8 recording tapes? And they were really expensive. They were, like, twenty bucks, I think. So my mom’s like, “Please don’t hit Record. You can pretend to record on the camera, but do not hit Record—
AMY: Oh, my gosh.
JASON: —because these tapes are expensive.” And that studio turned into—I had to get a separate circuit breaker. My dad was in construction, so he built out a second circuit breaker because I was popping lights left and right. I had a news desk, a green screen because I wanted to do weather. I had a police scanner, which required an antenna that was honestly the size of our house. And I put that up. I bought that at RadioShack without telling my parents. And I had three cameras, an editor, and I would just hire kids in the neighborhood to run camera, and I would just report on happenings in the neighborhood. And no one ever saw it. There was no YouTube. There was nothing. But I knew that's what I wanted to do, and I went to college for it, and then I moved out to L.A. in ’05, and I just wrapped up sixteen years at E! News this past January. And it was the coolest thing ever. And I'm continuing my own show, which we’ll be announcing soon, and producing projects. So, yeah, I can't imagine not being in this business, not being a storyteller, a broadcaster. I just love it so much. Was that longer than G’s?
AMY: What was it?
GIULIANA: Yeah. It was actually three seconds longer, but it was great. I love listening to it. It was wonderful.
AMY: It was good. It was good.
JASON: Well, thank you.
AMY: Okay. Wait a second. I can’t believe, Jason, you knew at such a young age, and the fact—this is what I wish my son—I sound so old to relate you to my son, but he's nineteen—I wish that’s what he was doing when he was really young. It's rare that someone finds their passion that young, just for the record, don't you think?
JASON: Yeah. I think it was really rare, and I realize that that's not the norm, and I'm just thankful that I pursued it and had parents that were—I mean, any time I wanted something, you know, “Hey, can you drive me to… There was a big drug bust. Can you drive me to this neighborhood?” And they're like, “Yeah. But it's dinnertime. It’s six o'clock.” I'm like, “All the news crews, like, my hero reporter Brian Andrews is on the scene. I want to go see Brian.” And they would take me there. And then we’d just drive home, and we'd have family dinner. So they supported every step along the way. I wouldn't be here without them being there for me, really.
AMY: Yes. I absolutely love that.
Okay. So for both of you, I want to get right to it and talk about things that you know work to get more comfortable on video. So, again, let me just set the scene. You're talking to a bunch of people who are creating digital courses or they're doing a YouTube channel or they're doing a podcast where they do video, and so most of them are doing lots of live video.
So actually, let's start there because I want to talk to you about teleprompters. It's a thing. People get tripped up a lot. But let's talk live video for a second. What are some things that you know work to get more comfortable on live video? because the second people go live, two things happen in my industry. Number one, they just really trip all over themselves, and they don't know what they're talking about all of a sudden, or they go down this really weird tangent, or there's just lots of awkward pauses. So these are some things that my students have said happen to them. What’s your advice?
GIULIANA: I mean, I think I’ll start with you’ve got to be prepared. The more prepared you are in terms of what you're going to be talking about during that live video, the more prepared you are, the more comfortable you're going to be. And that's honestly the bottom line. I think so many of us, and I'm definitely guilty of this throughout the years, save everything till the last minute, right? So now it's time to go live. And what makes me nervous is I'm not prepared. I'm like, oh. And so the more prepared I am, though, I found, the more comfortable and the more successful the live broadcast is.
So even if that means having a cue card up with some notes on it so I know, like, okay, I'm going to start with this. This is bullet point number one, number two, number three, number four. And I have it off to the side. It's okay to look off camera and look at something. And Jason and I would do this sometimes. We had notes on the desk or notes off to the side, and you kind of make it part of your mannerisms. Do you know what I mean? Like, as you're speaking, kind of look off to the side a little bit, almost like you're thinking. Then, glance at your card, glance at your notes.
But I would rather glance at notes, like I had a card in my hand or a note off to the side, and get it right and feel comfortable and hit the points that I'm trying to hit than to try to act like I don't need cards, I don't need anything, and then suddenly I'm getting nervous because I'm like, “Oh my gosh. What was the next point? What was the next point?”
People, they don't mind if you're looking at something, do you know what I mean? if you need to glance at something. But they do want the right information. You know what I mean? They want to hear what you have to say if they’re tuning in. So I’m very comfortable with looking at my card. You know, Jason and I do that on the red carpet. We have notes sometimes. And there’s some interviews we need our notes more than others. I have no problem standing there with a note card, because I want to do the best interview possible and make sure that I hit the points I want to hit. So I think being prepared and having notes is first and foremost what you need to do to have a successful live broadcast. Don’t you think, J?
JASON: Oh, for sure. I like to be overprepared. I'm kind of overprepared to a fault. And then I start—this is where it gets a little crazy, because when you know everything that's possible for the interview and then you start rehearsing it over and over again, I think that that could be a problem because then you're not allowing for something to happen live in the moment. So I think if you're prepared, you know it. Just be confident in knowing the materials.
But I think prompter is a different thing. Prompter is one of those things you have to just give time to. I mean, it just takes a long time to read a teleprompter and make it look naturally—natural. Excuse me.
I remember when I was younger, before they had all these teleprompter apps, now it's a lot easier because you have these apps that you can just download for free and you can practice all the time. I would just mute the television and put on closed captioning, and I would read the closed captioning on the TV, and that's how I got comfortable. But now, I think it’s PromptSmart Pro.
AMY: My favorite.
JASON: See? Okay.
AMY: So good.
JASON: It’s so great now. And just rehearse over and over and over again, and I think you’ll get to a point where it looks conversational, it looks like you’re not reading, and it just takes time, but you have to practice. But that helped so much. And maybe just put bullet points in the prompter. You don’t have to put this diatribe of what you’re trying to say in the prompter. But hit the top five, the top ten points in the prompter, and then just kind of vamp off of each of those points, and you should be good to go.
GIULIANA: Yeah. And Amy, could I just add? That's a great point, what Jason’s saying about the prompter. He's right. It takes time. It's like learning to do anything, right? You don't just pick up a tennis racket and you're a pro day one, right? Everything takes time. And getting good at prompter is no different than learning a sport or learning a skill. The more you do it, the more your eye is accustomed to various speeds and catching the next line that's coming, the next words that are coming, and the more natural your pauses will be as you're reading. So just because you do prompter a few times and it doesn't feel natural, think of it like a sport or a skill that you're trying to learn. It's like you're learning a new language. I mean, it's like anything, right? It takes time, and you just have to put that time into it, and you'll get better every day.
AMY: Okay. I’m so glad you said this, because years ago I used teleprompter for sales videos, and I was terrible at it. I always said it looked like I had eyes that were, like, going everywhere on the screen, like fluttering everywhere. And so I just assumed I was bad at a teleprompter. So I even have old podcasts where I’d say, “I don’t use a teleprompter. I'm really bad at it.” And then I realized, holy cow, I could say so much more in the order I want to say it and offer really more value if I got my thoughts together and in some cases put them into a script and really focused on that. So I went back to the teleprompter, and you're right. The more I do it, I'm just getting better and better. I never looked at it like a sport. I thought I was good or bad. And that’s not the case.
GIULIANA: It's not the case. And I got to tell you. I do have a little secret tip for prompters.
AMY: What? This stuff I want.
GIULIANA: Okay. Here we go. So do you realize sometimes when you're watching a newscast or you’re watching someone on TV and you do see their eyes moving left and right? Or you're watching a digital series, right? You see their eyes moving, like they're reading a prompter, and you're going, “Oh, my gosh. It's obvious they're reading the prompter.” The way to get around that, okay, is—and you can test this yourself. What they're doing that they need to adjust is their face is just staying stationary, facing the camera, okay? If you kind of, as you're speaking, if you do natural movements and you tilt your face, you kind of turn to the right a little bit, you turn to the left, you kind of go—if you constantly kind of like move your face in, like, small movements, just like you would if you're sitting at dinner with a friend, right? You move. Like, your chin goes up, your chin goes down. Oh, your face goes to the left and right. If you do these subtle movements, what happens is the eyes don't look like they're moving anymore. Do you know what I mean? So you've got—instead now your face is moving, and the eyes look stationary. The eyes look like they're just looking straight on to the lens as opposed to the face being totally still, facing the camera, and then people catch your eyes moving.
AMY: That's all I see.
GIULIANA: Yeah. So just even those little subtle movements, practicing that. I mean, literally the first thing you can do is just left, right. Like you're watching a tennis match, right?
GIULIANA: Left, right, subtle. Left, right. Keep the eyes forward. Left, right. And then, even that, just do it almost exaggerated one time, and then start making it a little more subtle and get your body used to just moving a little bit while you’re speaking, and that’s going to make you look more natural.
JASON: Or you could just wear massive sunglasses like Anna Wintour. People won’t be able to—
AMY: That’s another really great point, Jason. I'm glad you chimed in here, because that would work really well. I love that.
GIULIANA: Yeah. I tried to do that on the set of E! News a couple of weeks. I thought it would look cool. You know, I was like—
JASON: Getting your look.
AMY: They just go for it.
GIULIANA: Yeah. I thought it was, like, my look. You know, like, I'm going to wear sunglasses. And they were like, no, that's not going to happen.
AMY: Dang it. Dang it.
AMY: Okay. So tell me this. What do you do—and there's got to be moments where you're—let's go back to lives. So we're not doing teleprompter. Most people that are live in my industry aren't doing teleprompter. They'll use teleprompter when they're doing prerecorded videos. But typically, Facebook Live, Instagram Live. What happens if you’re on live and you totally mess up? You lost your train of thought, you said something wrong, the technology isn’t working. Like, talk to me about how you recover from things like that.
JASON: That was one of my biggest fears being in front of a live studio audience or being live on camera. And before I even walked out there, I said, “Oh, my gosh. What if I blank out?”
JASON: “What if in the middle of an interview I just forget my question?” And it happened a couple of times. Initially, I pulled it off by—I can't believe I'm admitting to this—but I coughed. I did, like, a quick little cough, cough, like that. And it allowed me a second or two to gather. And I was like, “Oh, excuse me.”
JASON: And then I moved on. So, yes, that could look like you have a little bit of a tic or whatever, and that might not be the best thing for you. But if you can pull off the cough thing, that's all good.
But I think it's how you recover from those moments that people really see your personality. I mean, we just got to have a lot of grace for people these days. We've all been through a lot. Especially post COVID, I think people are more natural and real and vulnerable, and people are going to have—I'm still having—I still sometimes—I had COVID. I don't feel like my memory's as sharp as it was. They say the COVID brain is real, you know, that type of thing?
JASON: And I feel like not being on the air every single day, sometimes you tend to forget. Don't beat yourself up over it. You don't have to be on your game 24/7. And if you happen to be on the air, on an Instagram Live, and you forget, your personality can shine through those mess ups, those moments. And just say, “Oh, my gosh. I completely forgot what I was talking about,” or “Why don't we go to a viewer question?” or “You guys have a lot of questions. I’ll get back to what I was talking about in a minute.” It’s just quick, subtle changes that you have to make that can really just move the show along without it having to be this crazy, oh-my-gosh moment. I can’t believe I blew it.
GIULIANA: I totally agree with Jason. I think that it's an opportunity to show your personality, right? And it's like you could have an authentic moment, right? And so I think it's one of the reasons why people are so nervous going live, because they're like, “What if I mess up?” So if you kind of know going in like, “Hey, if I mess up, you know what? It could be the best thing that happens to me. It's an opportunity for me to show my personality,” and just, it's okay. You know what I mean? Like, people know that you're live, that there's a lot of pressure, that you're probably getting information to the second, like, new information. And it's okay to be like—
So I do Home Shopping Network. I have a clothing line on HSN. And I'm on all the time. I was on this morning for an hour. And it's live, always live, several times a week. It's like I’m never nervous, Amy, because I'm just like, so what if I have pauses, if I'm thinking about something, if I'm like, “Oh, my gosh. That's so interesting. Hold on, let me think about that,” or “Gosh, I don't quite know. Let me figure it out.” And sometimes the producers are talking in my ear, and sometimes they're talking over the host, and they block the host out. So like, for instance, the host will ask me a question, but someone was talking in my ear during that second, so I didn’t hear the host’s question. Instead of pretending like I heard it and I’m just going to try to guess what she said, I’ll just be like, “Wait, Amy. Sorry, honey. Can you say that again? I think someone was just talking in my ear. Do you mind saying that again?” That’s okay. People would rather you actually address that you didn’t hear it and give her the right answer than to pretend that you did hear her and give her a weird answer. Do you know what I mean, Amy?
GIULIANA: So it’s just like going with the flow, knowing you’re live. It's all good, you know what I mean? Just kind of go with it, and you'll be fine.
JASON: Your following is going to—they're following you for a reason, right? They've embraced who you are, your comedy, your flaws, so they don't want some polished person up there not being authentic and being like, “Hey, we're here. And we're just doing all this stuff.” And well, actually, that's not who you are. You've become like a fake-news broadcaster. “We don't know who this person is. We didn't subscribe to this.” So just be yourself and embrace those flaws and the little mistakes because we all have them.
AMY: Okay. So I'm glad you both said that, because my next question was going to be, what do you think is trending right now in video? But I think you'll probably both would say the more natural, the more real, the more authentic you are, the better. You might have said that for years and years ago, even. But do you agree that since COVID there's an even more desire to see people in their real element, just being more real, I guess?
GIULIANA: Yeah, I do. I mean, I was talking about HSN before, and I know that the viewer loves to see the designers in their homes, right, because there's something very real and authentic about it as opposed to when we were always on set. And so I think that there's something nice about that. I know I feel like that. You know, I like tuning in and seeing people in their own environment and at home. And so, yeah. And I think that applies, too, to broadcasting as well. So you don't have to have a fancy set or lighting and fancy equipment like we probably did, once upon a time, have to have. So I think that people like that authenticity. Don't you think, J?
JASON: Yeah, for sure. There's nothing more frustrating when you put hours into editing a video and you put the fancy music and you put the titles and you think of a good caption and you put the good filter on it, and then you put it out there and it gets not a lot of likes, right? But then I put something, like yesterday, where I'm chasing a mouse around, with my wife in the backyard, and it gets a couple hundred thousand views. And I'm like, what? I just literally—
AMY: What do the people want?
JASON: It just makes no sense to me because that is your real-life, everyday stuff, and that's what people want. It's authentic. It's not glossy. It's not fancy. So for me, I mean, personally, on my social platforms, that's what's always worked. What's happening at the house, your relationship. People don't need a lot of the glitz and glamor. That's just not really resonating right now.
AMY: Yeah. The edited, polished videos, which, to be quite honest, my personality is not really comfortable off the cuff, and coming from my corporate days and Tony Robbins days, we did tons of professional video back then, so I’m more comfortable. I think I need to be more buttoned up and polished and professional. And so many of my students are like, “Amy, just let it go. We just don't want to see all that polished stuff. We just want to see you.” And I feel uncomfortable a lot. Like, I'm not totally comfortable on video, although I do tons of it, and I always just kind of have to psych myself up. So that kind of leads me to my question for you, and that is, what are some of the most common mistakes you see people make on video? You both have a digital course on video, and I want to talk about that. And I know throughout the twenty-plus years, or combined, more than twenty years, you've seen a lot of mistakes along the way, or you've made a lot of mistakes. So what are some of those mistakes you made, and what do we do instead?
GIULIANA: I think one of the main ones is honestly just feeling comfortable enough to just be natural and be yourself. You know, Amy, to your point, what makes you feel comfortable is what has worked for you for a long time, right? And that's what works for you. There's nothing wrong with that, right? And that's awesome. Like, that works for you. And so I would say, why even try to do something different? It’s obviously working. You're loving it. You feel good doing it. Same thing with me. Like, I have a certain style that I've been doing for a long time, and it works for me, and I like it. I'm comfortable doing it, right? So I wouldn't want to do something that I'm not comfortable doing. So I think the main thing is finding what makes you feel comfortable on camera, whatever that is, and kind of rolling with that, and trying to make something out of that.
I think with me, I remember when I was auditioning early on, before E!, and then I went to E!, and the thing that I auditioned at E!, I was the thirty-eighth person to audition for a reporter position on E! News. This was twenty years ago, exactly 20 years ago, by the way. And I remember finding out the reason I got the job is they said I was just so different from everyone else. They're like, you were just very different. Like, you were—
AMY: Oh, I love that.
GIULIANA: Yeah. Like, you would just do funny things on camera. Like, they looked at my demo reel of footage that I had had since college and grad school, and it was just, like, so much of it was so silly and just out there. And they said that that's really what got their attention is I wasn't trying to be someone else. They didn't have anyone like me on the show. Because I think there's often a temptation to watch other people and try to be like them, right?
GIULIANA: Because it's like, well, they're successful. They're doing what I want to do, so I want to be like her. So I easily could have gone into that audition at E! and been exactly like the reporters they had or the anchor they had at the time. But they already had those people. Why would they hire me? And so I just went in as myself, and I was kind of like goofy back then, and I would ask silly questions, and I just did—just everything. And I was kind of raw. Like, I had, just even the way, like, my look was. I was very different from everyone, and that's why they hired me. So I think just being yourself and embracing yourself and what makes you comfortable and building something out of that, I think, is the most important thing you can do to feel good on camera.
AMY: I feel like you’ve always had a sense of confidence in you, and I, obviously, haven't known you for years and years. And I know a little bit about your back story, but you’ve always been silly and yourself, and you'll make fun of yourself and you'll tease other people on camera. Has that always just come natural to you? Like, where is that confidence coming from?
JASON: Well, thanks for saying that, Amy. I appreciate it.
AMY: He is so bad!
GIULIANA: Jason would like you to insert, like, you just saying “Jason,” so that he—
GIULIANA: —can take that question. You know, I think it was—so let's think about that. I don't know. I honestly don't know. I definitely have not been confident my whole life. In fact, I was super insecure growing up. I had something called scoliosis, which is curvature of the spine. And so I was always hiding in baggy clothing and just never felt good physically because I was always, I had this curve, and I was very insecure. And I had it through my teenage years. I finally, I got surgery at the age of twenty-one. I had rods put in my back, and I was, yeah. And so my curve went from a pretty bad curve to almost zero degree curve, which was incredible. But you know, it was a big recovery, big surgery. I'm so glad I did it.
But I think that, I always say your weaknesses today are your strengths tomorrow, and those weaknesses, that weakness back in the day, what I think happened was I developed a big personality in high school because of that. You know what I mean? And I think that I had a lot of personality. I would just find humor in different things because I had to because I was feeling sad, you know, and felt a certain way. And so I think that that confidence that I developed helped me, for sure, later in life.
So really any, whatever we're going through, I mean, and I do say that a lot. I'm like, look, something that feels like a weakness today very well could be your strength tomorrow. And I'm proof of that. So whatever it is right now that you're like, oh, I don't know if I could be a broadcaster because of this or this or this; it's like, hmm, maybe that's what's going to set you apart, you know? And so it's kind of just staying open to that idea that you don't have to fit in a certain mold, that it's actually good to be different and do something unique.
AMY: I love that.
Jason, tell us the mistakes that you see a lot of people make, or maybe that you've made along the way when it comes to live or prerecorded video.
JASON: I was just too polished, and we talked a little bit about that—
AMY: Amen, amen.
JASON: —already. But I was in the boat that maybe how you felt early on, and we still may fight through those feelings of like, okay, I'm prepared. It's going to go right. What if it doesn't go right? But the moments that really made me stand out, pop on camera, where I would get the emails that meant so much to me from the executives would be—I always think about this Julia Roberts interview. And I went in there, and I watched the movie, and I had my fifteen questions, even though I only had eight minutes with her, and that's probably six or seven questions, but I had way too many questions just in case, and I had them all memorized.
And I go in there, and we sit down. She’s like, “Hey, so how’s everything going?” You know, a little small talk. I start the interview, we ask about the movie, and then she just somehow was in like the funniest mood. And she's like, “Last time I sat down with you, you were dating this girl from San Diego. Are you guys still dating?” And I said, “No.” And she goes, “What happened? Did she drop you like a hot potato?” And she starts going back and forth, just ripping me. And it was, I was so shocked, but I loved every moment because I knew, wait, this interview has now turned into Julia Roberts giving me dating advice. It doesn't matter what she—I think my next question in line in my head was, “I have to ask her about working with Tommy Lee Jones. I really got to ask about that chemistry question with Tommy Lee Jones.” And instead I said, “You know what, forget it. She wants to take the interview here. She's in charge, so go with it.” And I got so many responses on social media, and it turned into this thing for years, every time I sat down with Julia, we talked about relationships, and she was really guarded about her relationship with her husband and her family. But that allowed me to go there with her. There was a trust that was built.
JASON: So if I was so stuck in my ways and my notes and how I thought the interview was going to go, I never would have gotten those great moments. So I understand it on an interview level. Apply that to, anybody listening right now, apply that to whatever that looks like in your own professional life.
AMY: Yes. That's a great story. I love that.
Okay. That actually is perfect because I was going to ask you guys two more questions, and they're both personal to you. I want to know the best advice you ever received along the way in your journey, and then, also, the most nervous you've ever been on television and how did you get through it? Like, how did you survive? So we're going for both of them, if you're open to that. Who's going to go first?
JASON: Well, G, I think about the first time we went live on television together. It was the Critics’ Choice Awards. It was in Santa Monica. And you told me a bunch of things to get ready. But you also told me that I was a little—how shall I say this?—pale, and you said, “You need to go get a spray tan.”
AMY: Oh, no. I'm already nervous of the story.
GIULIANA: I don’t know if this story is real, but go ahead, J.
JASON: Oh, okay.
GIULIANA: I don't remember this.
JASON: You just look like you spent a little time in the sun. I mean, you look a little pale. And so I go and I get—I didn't know there was three different levels to a tan. So I go, “Yeah, give me the one like I've been vacationing in Hawaii for weeks.” So I get a three; I should have gotten a one, by the way. I get a three. I come out of there. I am like Tan Mom. I don't know if you remember her from, like, twelve years ago.
AMY: Yes, yes.
JASON: I am orange. And that was the first problem. But then, when I got on the air—I remember. We were in the limo. We decided to go together. Normally, they would do separate cars or whatever. And we just kept—we were rehearsing our jokes, which you should never rehearse jokes. That’s, like, the craziest thing in the world.
AMY: I would totally rehearse jokes. I would totally do that.
JASON: Which is not authentic, right? Just be in the moment. But I think G was just really trying to help me because I was so nervous. Live TV, are you kidding? I've never done this in my life.
But when we did it, and we got that under our belt, it was a real beautiful dance. Yes, I was over-tanned, but it was a really special moment because she helped me. I mean, literally the days leading up to it. What do I do with my hands? I kept kind of clasping them in a weird way. And why are you talking so loud like you're on stage and you're doing a Broadway show? Talk in a normal voice, a normal tone. Don't overthink things. Like, she really walked me through. And that is so rare because these days you just hear so many stories about yes, of course, it's competitive, but it's cohosts that don’t even get along, cohosts that appear to like each other on air but during commercial break, they don’t even speak to each other. But it was a real, beautiful—like, she really helped me through a lot of these things. And that Critics’ Choice, I’ll never forget that that was the most scared I’d ever been on camera. But when you have someone next to you, when you have that luxury and that blessing of someone next to you guiding you through it, it's a beautiful thing.
GIULIANA: Aw, thanks, J. You’re so sweet. And I got to say, I think the spray-tan thing, I’ll tell you. So I have not spray tanned in years. But back in the day, whoo, I loved a good spray tan.
AMY: It was so new.
GIULIANA: Yeah, and it was, like, a big thing, red carpet. Actually, I remember when we would do fashion reviews the next day, it was often, like, you don’t remember, like magazines would talk about, “That person went overboard with their spray—”
GIULIANA: It’s like you don’t really see that as much anymore. But back in the day it was a big thing—
AMY: It was a thing.
GIULIANA: —especially on the red carpet. It was a thing.
JASON: What was the guy’s name who spray tanned you?
GIULIANA: What? I don’t—
AMY: What? Is this an inside joke?
JASON: You had, like, the guy in town. You loved a good spray tan.
AMY: Okay. For the record, I still love a good spray tan, so I don’t know why you guys are saying this is a thing of the past.
JASON: Well, no. There's nothing wrong with it, but I think sometimes we'll take it to a level three where it just needs to hover around a one.
AMY: Agree. Agree. Agree.
GIULIANA: And they've gotten better.
AMY: They have. They have.
GIULIANA: You’re right, Amy. Amy, they have gotten better. Oh, my gosh. I'm crying right now, J. I know what you're talking about. I got to look his name up again. Oh, my god. I’m dead.
AMY: There was, like, the guy in L.A. that did spray tans?
JASON: Yeah. There was a show from E! called Sunset Tan, about tanning spray.
GIULIANA: Oh, yeah! Oh, yeah. I remember. I told you. It was a big moment. I mean, they had a mo—spray tans, yes. Of course they’re still around. They’re better now. But they were the thing. Okay.
AMY: Back in the day they got a little scary. Okay.
Can you think of your most nervous?
GIULIANA: I’ll tell you, Amy, honestly, I would say every show, okay, is my most nervous leading up. But the second that light goes on, okay, I'm not kidding you, I completely, all my nerves go out the door. You would think it's the reverse. You’d think people stay calm and cool, and then the light goes on, and then they get nervous. I’m actually the opposite of that. I calm down once the light’s on because I’m like, you know what? When I see that light, that light says to me, you're prepared. You've done your stuff. You've prepared for this. You've done your work. And just have fun. You know, like, just enjoy. Like, go for it. Just have a good time, you know? Like you're in it. You're in it. Make the best of it, right?
So that’s the thing. So, honestly, and Jason knows this. I have this whole kind of thing before red-carpet shows. I get, a few days leading up, I start to get very kind of quiet. Like, I'm not chatting on the phone as much, or I'm not as chatty. I get very—I get into a zone a few days in. And then the day of the show, as Jason knows, I barely even speak. Like, I'm kind of like looking at my notes. I'm quiet. Like, I'm having fun. We're getting hair and makeup done. Like, we're having fun. And it looks like I'm laughing, having fun, having some conversations, but I'm really, like, I'm in a zone. Like, I'm in my head. And that's just where I need to be before a show. That's kind of like—I'm just going over everything in my head. I'm getting mentally prepared. That way, when the light goes on, I can let that energy out and turn that kind of nervous energy, that very serious, nervous energy, into an exciting energy. And so that's what I've always done. So I honestly, I have to tell you, like, I've never been like—I can't think of any show where during the show I'm super nervous, because, once again, this goes back to earlier in our conversation, I’m prepared, but I'm not overprepared.
So I'm prepared in the sense that I've seen all the movies, or I've watched all the TV shows, so that if I'm talking to someone and they say, “Well, you know, that one scene that everyone talks about,” I know what they're talking about, right? So I can just have a conversation. It's as if I'm at dinner with this person. It's like I've seen their movie. I know about them. I've studied them throughout the year just by being on E! News or being a fan of pop culture, so that when I'm in the moment, I'm having a conversation. Because I used to actually joke, Amy. I used to say—it's not even a joke—but I used to say, “I prepare by not preparing.”
AMY: I hear it all the time.
GIULIANA: Yeah. Okay. So that kind of goes again to what I'm telling you. So what I mean by that is, of course, I'm “prepared” in the sense that, let's say it's the Oscars. I've seen all the movies, right? I've watched multiple interviews of the people I'm interviewing. I've interviewed them several times in the past. I know what they've been up to. I've looked at their Instagram. I feel very comfortable with every person I'm going to be interviewing in the sense that I've prepared on kind of what they've been up to and their project so that when I'm in the moment, I can be in the moment, right? So we're having a conversation. Suddenly, I see that they're looking off to the side and waving at someone, and I go, “Oh, who's that person?” “Oh, that's my date tonight,” or “That's my mom. I brought her tonight.” “Oh, my gosh. Let's bring her in.” You see what I mean? So you’re in the moment, and all these great things happen when you’re in the moment.
But at the core, I'm prepared. But actually on the surface, I'm kind of not prepared in the sense that I'm open to anything that's going to happen in the moment. So that's what I mean by saying “I prepare by not preparing,” because I just want to be in the moment and have all this stuff to fall back on: questions and research. But really, it's like when the interview starts, anything can happen. You know what I mean? And I love that feeling that anything can happen.
AMY: Okay. I love this because I actually heard you wrong. I thought you said, back in the day, you didn't prepare, but you had a totally different take on that. I love what you just shared here, because a lot of my students will say, “I just want to be off the cuff and natural, so I just don't prepare anything.” And in my judgmental mind, at the time, I'm thinking, “But these people are spending time with you. They're showing up, and they're giving you their precious time because they want to learn something,” so I do think people should prepare. But you just gave me such a gift, and you, too, Jason, for the record, but, G, you just gave me such a gift because being prepared but not making sure that everything goes exactly as planned when I'm live, whether I'm doing an interview or I'm just teaching myself, that's the stuff that I think sometimes I miss out on.
GIULIANA: Amy, I'm telling you, at the core, you have to be prepared for whatever it is you're walking into, right? Like I said, if it's the Oscars, you need to know, of course, all the nominated movies. You have to have seen them all, of course. You know what I mean? And you need to be prepared on who you might possibly speak to that day. That way, you're so prepared on your subject matter that now you go, “Okay. I got it,” right? It's natural to me. I can talk about any of that. But now I'm going to have fun and have these great moments with people and just have great authentic conversations. And I can fall back on all of that because I've seen their movie, and I know about this person. And so that's how you kind of have a little bit of both. You've got to be prepared at the core, but then you have to be kind of unprepared, if you will, in the moment to just kind of take anything in.
AMY: Yes. It makes perfect sense. I love that.
Okay. So, my final question for you both, thinking about the years that you've been doing this, with twenty years, and Jason, sixteen years, like, the amount of time, you must have come up on some really great advice for your career or video or just how to show up. I know it's putting you both on the spot a little bit, but can you think of some of the best advice you've ever received?
JASON: Yeah. Don't be so hard on yourself.
AMY: Who gave you that advice?
JASON: I don't know if it was one person. I might have come to that realization maybe on my own because I would watch recordings and interviews. And I was so adamant. We would get off set, I'd go into my dressing room and watch the show. Although I just lived the moment live, I'm watching it, and I'm just tearing myself apart, left and right. Why did you do this? Why did you look like this? Why did you ask this question? And I think it really affected me for years and years. And then finally, after a while, I just stopped watching, and I felt a lot more confident. And I realized I was just so tough on myself, and I wasn't embracing my flaws and my personality traits and just, also, my gifts, my talents. There's a reason I'm there in the first place and had been at that job for so long. And I think I was just too darn hard. And I think people just have to realize you're not going to enjoy it. If this is your gift and you're truly living out your purpose and your gift, but you're so tough on yourself, you're just diluting it. It's not going to be fun. So just go easy on yourself and embrace who you are and embrace the live moments and embrace the awkwardness and embrace all of it, and I think you'll enjoy it more. I think it'll just be a better experience for you.
AMY: I love that you shared that, Jason, because I think a lot of my listeners are very hard on themselves. And I watch you, Jason. I see what you've done on E!. I see what you do on social. Never in a million years would I ever thought years ago you were hard on yourself. I would have thought that this was always just came really easy to you. And so for you to share that, it's such proof that we don't always have to stay where we're at. We don't always have to be beating ourselves up. We really can change. Because you have so much fun in what you do, I love that you were able to let that go. I think a lot of listeners realize they can, too.
JASON: Yeah. It was a really special moment when I stopped doing that, and it just brought a lot more freedom and enjoyment. So, hopefully, people can experience that as well. We just got to chill out. We're not saving lives; we're entertaining people, at the end of the day, and life is short, right?
AMY: Yes. Amen to that. So true.
All right. How about you, G? Final words of advice that you've gotten.
GIULIANA: I think the most important advice I realized early on and took to heart early on was there are no shortcuts. If you want to take a shortcut, you might have a short career doing what it is that you're trying to do. But if you want to have a long career, there are no shortcuts. So for me, I knew that very early on. And when I started at E!, for instance, if you asked me to do a premier or work extra, whatever it was, I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes. I wanted to do the work. And I think that that's the thing that really helped me realize my dreams was the fact that I was willing to do the work. And I was a very hard worker and I didn't—it's so funny. It was like a joke at E! that if I had to go see an executive or the vice president or president or whoever, someone would have to show me how to get to their office. I had no idea, because I just wasn't that—I never went to talk to any executives or anyone about my position or my job, or I want this or I want that. Not at all. I just did the work, and I knew that the work would speak for itself. And so I knew that—that was, I think, one of the reasons that I had a twenty-year career, doing the same thing for twenty years, is because I put the work in and it showed, and everyone knew that I had a really strong work ethic and that I took pride in what I was doing, and I loved what I was doing, and I wanted it to be better every day, and I wanted people around me to achieve their dreams and goals and wanted to help people around me. I mean, it was just—you know, I put in the work, and there truly are no shortcuts. There just aren't.
And so I learned different aspects of the business as well. When I moved to Los Angeles, there were different jobs I could do, and in the beginning I did. I worked at a restaurant. I worked in retail. I did different things. But I went into a mailroom at a talent agency, and I learned the inner workings of the entertainment industry. And I was a mailroom—I was in the mailroom, literally delivering packages around Hollywood and the Valley and all over. And so I would learn kind of how to get around L.A. because I’d moved here from Maryland, or to L.A. from Maryland, and I'd never been to L.A. when I moved to L.A.
And then, I got promoted out of the mailroom to a desk, to an agent's desk, as an assistant. And I would be on phone calls, listening to big conversations with big executives and producers and directors and celebrities. And I would hear the inner workings and learn about the inner workings of the entertainment business.
So when I went to E!, it was interesting because I knew both sides of the business. I knew what it was like to be in front of the camera, behind the camera. So as much information and knowledge as you can get regarding the industry that you want to be in, I say get it, even if it means starting in the mailroom, whatever it is. And for me, that really helped me learn about the business. But I mean, the work ethic was definitely the biggest thing, because I will tell you, sometimes you think to yourself, especially when you're starting out, “I’m putting all this work in. Will anyone notice?” And the answer is yes, because here's the thing. People who make the decisions at the companies to, like, promote you and to give you your shot, they're paying attention. You think they're not, but they are paying attention, or the people who work for them are paying attention, and they're going to point to you. They're going to point at you and go, “That young woman right there, she's a really hard worker. She's great. She’s got great work ethic. We want her in our company.” And that's how you make it. You know what I mean?
And so for me, I think—and Jason was the same way. Jason was such a hard worker. Jason and I, we would work so hard. We’d do every premier, any opportunity E! would give us, we would take it: to be on a red carpet, to do an interview, to be online, whatever it was. And we knew that with everything we did, we got better, our craft got better, and we also showed that, hey, we're hard workers. We're here. We're serious. And I think it paid off for us.
AMY: For sure, it paid off, and then some. I love this.
Okay. Oh, go ahead, Jason.
JASON: I was just going to say, and don't burn bridges along the way. I mean, you never know who you're going to be working for down the road. It could be someone that you've worked with in the past, and they’re your colleague at the time, and now they're your boss. I mean, it's kind of like chess. This industry is crazy, and people are always moving around and switching gigs and jobs, and there's thousands of channels and digital networks and streamers. And just be kind to everybody along the way, and not just because you want something out of them, but just make it an enjoyable experience for everyone.
You just—truly, I ran into a former executive last week at dinner and just gave her the biggest hug. And it's just one of those things. I see a lot of people who burn bridges. They can take advantage of a situation, and it just never really works out for them.
JASON: Yeah. It just doesn't.
AMY: Relationships are everything.
AMY: I think no matter what industry you're in, I think if you put relationships above all else, I don't think you can lose. I think that's such an important lesson.
GIULIANA: You’re right.
AMY: So, Jason was saying, stop being so hard on yourself. And then, G’s advice was there's no shortcuts. But then, also, coming back to relationships matter and, you know, be kind and show up, how you would want people to treat you, I think such good lessons. And you both are such examples of that.
So, before I let you go, you together created a digital course. It’s called Own the Spotlight. Is that right?
AMY: Own the Spotlight. I'm very excited about this. I really wanted you two to create a course, so when I heard it was out there in the world, I'm like, “Oh, my gosh. We got to get on the show. You got to talk about it.” So tell me a little bit about it. What's it about? Who's it for? Where'd you get the idea? Like, let's talk about this course. And, ultimately, people are going to want to go check it out, so tell people where they can find it.
JASON: Yeah. Jasonandg.com is the website. And first off, Amy, you were so instrumental and helpful to us making this happen, a real encourager, and we really want to thank you. And G and I wanted to do this course for a long time. We just, quite frankly, didn't have the time to dedicate to it, and, you know, through COVID, we found some time. And the responses have just been, just nothing short of remarkable. People so thankful that we did something like this.
And this is not just for someone who wants to be a television host. I mean, if you want to get better on camera, if you want to become a better public speaker, if you want to become better with building your brand, G’s the best at it. I'm always learning. She's an incredible businesswoman. So we really tackle all of that, and we get into—we have all these different modules. Didn't even know what a module was before we started our course, but—
AMY: I love it.
JASON: —here I go, talking like I’m a course creator now.
AMY: You are.
JASON: Anything from prompter, to what to do with your hands, to what to do with your eyes, to networking, to building your brand. What else am I leaving out, G?
GIULIANA: No. These are all good things. Yeah. Like, even all the technology that we like, like the prompter app we like, the lighting that we ordered, things like that, we also share that. Like, what mic we ordered from Amazon, you know? Things like that we cover.
So Jason's right. I mean, this is something we wanted to do for a long time, and we're so excited to put it out there. When Jason and I went into this and we were deciding what to talk about in this course, we thought to ourselves, “Here's where we should start. Let's start with not long ago when we were young, when we were starting out, when we were starting out, what would we want to know from other hosts? What would we want to know? What is the most invaluable information, the information that's really going to help us become successful and get better on camera and maybe get the job we want? And so that's where we started with this course, and we just had so much fun doing it.
So this is really, like, if you're listening to this podcast now, it's kind of like this podcast, like an extension of this podcast. We go into all different kind of categories. And yeah, I mean, first and foremost, it's really about being comfortable on camera, being your authentic self on camera, finding your voice, and lots of tips and tricks of ours that we've learned along the way.
AMY: Ah, so good. Jasonandg.com, right?
JASON: Jasonandg.com. That’s it.
GIULIANA: Yeah. He insisted that Jason had to be first.
AMY: Yeah. What’s that? What’s that about?
GIULIANA: I know. Yeah. We’re going to do a followup module about diva behavior.
AMY: Yes. Good idea.
GIULIANA: Actually, I’m going to host that solo because Jason—I don’t know if he can be part of that one, because I might be talking about him quite a bit during that one.
JASON: I have no comment.
AMY: Well, what I will say is that if you have the chance to learn from two people that literally built their careers in front of the camera, whether it be off the cuff, live, prerecorded, they have done it all. So when I heard they were going to create a digital course, I felt like this was a must. And so I'm really excited you both put this out into the world. What a gift. So you guys, go check it out. I’ll link to it on my show notes. But it's not often that a digital course is created by people that have the experiences that you've had for so long. So anyway, I just am very excited about it. Own the Spotlight. Go check it out.
My friends, I can’t believe you said yes to this. I feel very, very fortunate. I just adore both of you. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
JASON: It’s our pleasure, Amy. Truly—
JASON: —an honor to chat with you, and we owe you for encouraging us to do this. And thank you, again, for all your help and to your incredible loyal listeners for hearing us out for the past hour. It's just cool to connect with everybody.
GIULIANA: Yeah. You're great, Amy. Thank you so much. I mean, seriously, thank you for taking the time to talk to us. And we can't tell you how much we appreciate you, so thank you so much, Amy.
AMY: Of course. And good luck to both of you. You have huge, huge opportunities on the horizon for both of you that are coming up. I can't wait to see your next chapter, so congratulations for everything you've done, but also about the future. I can't wait to watch.
JASON: Thanks, Amy.
GIULIANA: Thank you, Amy.
AMY: Aren't they amazing? I absolutely love those two.
And now we've got to jump to the action steps. We talked a lot about different ways to show up more naturally on video and how to keep things under control when you maybe get a little bit off track or get really, really nervous. I want you to put one of, at least one of, the things you learned here today into practice. So how do you do that? Well, either schedule a live video or get on Facebook Live, Instagram, or maybe it's time to turn on that teleprompter. I'll link to that software that Jason mentioned earlier in the show. I think it's a fantastic piece of software, and I think getting practice on a teleprompter is important. So I want to encourage you all to at least experiment there.
For me, I think my two biggest takeaways were, number one, when Giuliana was sharing about moving your head around when you're reading a teleprompter so it's not like your head stays stationary and you could see your eyes go from left to right, left to right. I loved that. That is something I genuinely will be putting in practice the next time I use a teleprompter. And then from Jason, I think the biggest thing I learned was that you have to just relax and not be so uptight. And it spoke to me because that's me. I think I'd be on the more uptight spectrum of being really casual and cool on camera and being fully, fully nervous and scared. I'm somewhere in the uptight a lot of the times. Now, it doesn't come across that way—I don't think so—anymore because I've been doing it for so long. So that's another thing I took away from this interview, that you just have to keep showing up. Remember what Giuliana said in the very beginning, that reading a teleprompter, or I'd say all video in general, is like learning a sport. Practice makes perfect. So don't forget that.
Okay. So, there you have it. I hope you go check out their digital course. There's so much more—we just scratched the surface—so much more that you can learn from those two. And they’re so much fun. So you'll have a great time as well. Oh, that's the last thing I'll say.
From both of them, I think one thing I'm taking away that I have to remember is this is supposed to be fun, my friends. Building an online business, creating digital courses, going live on video, it can be really fun if you let it. And if you start to really pay attention to both Giuliana and Jason online, they're always laughing, they're always smiling, and they genuinely are like that behind the scenes. So when I talk to them off camera or when we're not recording, they're just as silly, just as fun. And I think we could all use a little bit more fun infused in making videos. Am I right?
All right, my friends. Thanks for joining us here today. I'll see you next week, same time, same place. Bye for now.