Transcript: How This Seven-Figure Business Owner Uses Her Podcast to Drive Traffic, with Jenna Kutcher

November 12, 2020

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JENNA KUTCHER: “Earlier, when you asked me how podcasting had transformed my business, I wanted to shout this piece from the rooftops, but I personally like to build a little bit of suspense, and I knew that you would be willing to stick with this. So from the very beginning, we realized that podcasting could be this huge way to convert listeners into subscribers, and it’s actually super simple. So the easiest way to do this is through what you and I call content upgrades, or an additional resource that will further the journey of the listener on a topic that they're currently interested in.  

So, for example, if I were to record an episode all about how to boost your Instagram engagement, a content upgrade that someone could opt in for would be a free download on the five apps I use daily for my Instagram strategy. And so basically, when a listener has hit Play on an episode, they're usually invested in the topic at hand. And so if you have some sort of freebie or an additional resource that’s aligned with that topic, it’s this easy invite for them to get their hands on it and to simultaneously join your email list, where you can then serve them even more goodness on the topic.” 

INTRO: I’m Amy Porterfield, ex-corporate girl turned CEO of a multi-million-dollar business. But it wasn't all that long ago that I lacked the confidencemoney, and time to focus on growing my smallbutmighty business. Fast forward past many failed attempts and lessons learned, and you'll see the business I have today, one that changes lives and gives me more freedom than I ever thought possible, one that used to only exist as a daydream. I created the Online Marketing Made Easy podcast to give you simple, actionable, stepbystep strategies to help you do the same. If you're an ambitious entrepreneur, or one in the making, who's looking to create a business that makes an impact and helps you create a life you love, you're in the right place. Let's get started. 

AMY PORTERFIELD: Okay, before we get going, a quick word from our sponsor. 

This episode is sponsored by Gravy. If you have a subscriptionmodel business, like a membership site, or offer payment plans, like I do with my digital courses, you've got to listen up. One of my biggest frustrations in the past was lost money due to failed payment plans. In fact, it used to keep me up at night. I would worry about all the people that were on a payment plan, because if they stopped their payments, I'd be screwed.  

That's when I started working with GravyGravy sets up a system inside your business, where they contact your customers within hours of their failed payments, and they capture updated billing information and save the customer.  

Now, as you know, failed payments can be a sensitive topic to navigate with your customers, and that's why Gravy acts as an extension of your team. So when they reach out to people, they communicate on your behalf, and they do it with compassion. On average, before Gravy, our failedpayment recovery rate was just 33 percent when we were trying to do it on our own. Now it's over 80 percent collection on failed payments. That's a whole lot of saved payments.  

If your revenue is currently at $250,000 or more and you know you're losing money due to failed payment plans each month, I want to encourage you to check out Gravy. Here's the great news. Gravy is offering my listeners their first month free. So if you want to book a discovery call to find out if your business is a good fit for everything Gravy has to offer, go to 

Fast forward seven years. Here I am, still doing the podcast thing and loving every second of it. I'll tell you two things. One, there's never been a moment in those seven years where I regretted starting my podcast. And number two, it's never too late to start your podcast. And if you've ever thought maybe it's too late, don't go anywhere, because starting a podcast could be one of the smartest things you do in your business. And since it's been a minute since we've talked about podcasting as an entrepreneur on the podcast, I decided to invite my friend Jenna Kutcher back on the show to have a conversation around podcasting and entrepreneurship and how they tie together to drive traffic to your business and grow your audience. And I know many of you are looking for ways to grow your audience and to grow your email list. So this episode is definitely for you.  

Now, Jenna is a fellow lover of online marketing and is actually one of my students from way back whenI feel like that's aging us right away—and now she runs a seven-figure business and hosts a toprated podcast called The Goal Digger Podcast. Many of you are big fans, I know. So today we're going to talk about how a podcast can support your business in more ways than just generating revenue for you. And yes, a podcast can generate more revenue in your business. But it goes so much further beyond that 

We're also going to give you some behindthescenes things that we've learned and mistakes we've made and experiences that we've had podcasting, and we're going to tell you what to do and what not to do when you're just getting started. This is basically the episode I wish I had when I was thinking about starting a podcast. So whether you have a podcast or you're thinking about starting one or maybe you haven't even thought about it yet but you're not yet creating consistent content every single week, then you're going to get so much out of this episode. There's something for everyone today. So let's dive in and chat about all things podcasting with my guest, Jenna Kutcher.  

Well, hey, girl, welcome back to the show.  

JENNA: Thank you so much for having me back on. It is seriously a delight.  

AMY:  It is going to be a great conversation because it's one of my most favorite topics, talking about podcasting. And before we get there, though, what have you been up to lately? 

JENNA: Oh, my goodness. Well, with 2020 being the year it's been, we've been looking for the silver lining in any way that we can find it. And so we've been spending a ton of time up the North Shore in Minnesota. Today I went in and put Coco down for her nap, and she was just this goofy little smiley thing. And so just soaking up as much family time as we can muster. And we recently celebrated our four hundredth episode of my podcast, which is crazy.  

AMY: Whoa. Congrats! That’s huge! 

JENNA: Thank you. I know. It’s so wild. And that's why I think I'm just so excited to talk about this topic with you, because, before we dive in, I have to tell everyone that you are the reason why I started my show all those years ago. 

AMY: What?! 

JENNA: Yes. We’ll get into it. We’ll get into it. 

AMY: Okay, okay. That’s going to be fun to hear. 

Okay, so let’s get into it. Let’s talk podcasts. And I’m just going to start out with a heavy-hitting question because I want to talk about, what are some ways, besides building revenue—we’ll get to that—but what are some other ways to use your podcast to grow your business and to grow your audience? 

JENNA: Okay. I love this question so much. And I actually always laugh when it comes to podcasting because anyone that's listening is obviously in the world of podcasting, rightThey hit Play. But my grandparents, they totally don't understand what a podcast is. And so I told them, I'm like, “It's kind of like a radio show mixed with a sermon. But instead of preaching, I'm teaching business.” And they were like, “Oh.” 

AMY: That’s a good way to say it. 

JENNA: Yeah. I totally get it, because they were introducing me as, like, a radio host. They just totally didn’t get it. But podcasting extends your brand in a way that isn’t possible through social media alone. Now, think about it. People are literally inviting you into their lives, whether they're commuting to work or washing dishes or if they're like me, they're listening and learning while they're washing their hair in the shower. And with all other forms of media, it requires someone to sit and keep their attention focused on what you create in order to engage. But podcasting actually allows the listener to take you with them wherever they are.  

And last night, Drew and I, we were on a run, and he said to me, he said, “Every time I get to this specific turn on the road, I think of this exact podcast episode I was listening to for the first time that I ever ran it. And it was kind of cool because it reminded me of this almost imprinting process of what happens when we invite someone's voice into our world, no matter what we're doing. It's like this amazing way to extend your brand from social media alone. 

AMY: Okay, that's a really great way to look at it. I have always looked at podcasting as a way of people inviting me into their homes, inviting me into their workouts, because I'm in their earbuds when they're listening. And I've had that exact same situation where I'm driving somewhere, and I think of a podcast that I had been listening to at that very specific location. So I get what Drew’s saying. It is an imprint, and that's a really cool way of looking at it. And overall, basically saying, it makes such a big impact on people's lives when they can take you anywhere and everywhere. 

JENNA: Yes. It’s a different way to consume it. And I honestly think it's the way that the world is shifting, where it's, like, we can learn while we're doing other things. And especially women, but men as well, we're multitaskers, and so the ability to hit Play while doing the dishes or going on a walk or hitting the gym or whatever that is, it's almost like we're able to invite education or learning or humor or joy or entertainment into our lives on our own terms, which makes it all the more special. 

AMY: So true. I totally agree. I can't do the dishes without a podcast going on.  

JENNA: Right? 

AMY: It is, like, a rule. Yes.  

So let's chat a little bit about why you and I chose podcasting as our form of weekly content and how it's been a huge benefit to our business. But let's also talk a little bit about what industries entrepreneurs might also benefit from having a podcast.  

JENNA: Okay. 

AMY: So let's get into that. So, first of all, why did you choose a podcast as your form of weekly content? You could have done video. You do tons of video, too. You could have written a blog. You're a great writer. Why’d you choose podcasting? 

JENNA: Yeah. So I can speak for myself here, but I think you also, of all people, can relate to me, is I don't want to record an hourlong video and have to be dolled up each and every week 

AMY: Amen. 

JENNA: —in order to share information. We were literally saying, “Isn't it a blessing that we can talk without seeing each other, because you should see me right now.” 

AMY: That’s the exact conversation we had when Jenna came on, because we use Zencastr. I’m like, I love Zencastr. There’s no video feature just yet. 

JENNA: Yes. No distractions like that. And for me, podcasting is way more approachable because all we need is a microphone and our voices to show up. And I don’t know about you, but I personally don’t sit and watch long videos of someone just sitting in a chair and talking. I love to take that information with me and into my life. And so my consumer habits help drive the way that I create and produce. And when I look at what sort of endeavors people should pursue next, I love to think about it where passion and progress intersect. So a lot of times we have these, like, grandioso ideas. Like, I‘m going to launch a YouTube channel; or I'm going to record these long videos; or I'm going to do a blog, and I'm going to blog every single day; and whatever that looks like.  

But I like to look at things and say, “Okay, where is my passion? My passion is in educating and showing up consistently. And where does progress actually intersect with that passion? And for me, podcasting was kind of the lowest barrier to entry, where I was like, “Yes, I can commit to sitting down and pressing Record. I don't have to have all the gear. I don't have to have a team. I don't have to have any of those bells and whistles in order to do that. And that's how I decided that. I mean, being able to record virtually anywhere in any sort of clothes—I don't know about you, but I'm wearing my pajamas today—it's, like, the back end of podcasting is way easier than other methods of longform delivery, because editing an audio track is way easier than editing a video. And so for the ease of starting a podcast, it was super enticing for me, and it gave me the ultimate confidence to pursue it.  

What about you? Why did you decide on podcasting? 

AMY: So, I decided on podcasting because I don't think that writing's easy for me. I can hold my own, but it takes me a long time. I don't enjoy the process. And so I thought, I'm not going to write a blog every single week. And I knew that the weekly consistent content was important. So I asked myself, what other ways would my audience consume this content if I didn't do—because I had a blog when I first started out. And I knew, okay, definitely podcasting. And I got it started in, I think it was 2013, where podcasts were just starting to get a lot of steam.  

JENNA: You are the OG, Amy Porterfield. 

AMY: Right? Because I remember a friend saying, “Podcasting?” She was in Internet marketing. She’s like, “Podcasting. That's weird. I'm like, “No, it's really definitely on the rise. Thank God I did it. But you're right: it's so much easier. But here's what I always say about podcasting that I love. I believe that because of platforms like iTunes and now Spotify and iHeartRadio, things that were not popular when I started podcasting, but these other platforms, they are going to get you out in front of audiences that I would never have access to before. And so that is hugely beneficial to me as a marketer to know that I don't have to do all the heavy lifting, and that was a huge plus for me as well. 

JENNA: Yeah. And one other thing to note, too, is when we're talking about these massive platforms, there aren't the same type of algorithms that we experience on social media.  

AMY: Yes. 

JENNA: There's not a lot of changes happening. There's not a lot of drops happening that impact your ability to get your show seen. And so it makes it a far more approachable platform to share things on, and it also builds up this content library, this resource library, for people to go back and learn from you, no matter if you posted an episode four years ago or yesterday. 

AMY: So true.  

Now, you and I are in the business sector with our podcasts, but there's so many other industries that would thrive with a podcast. Would you agree with that?  

JENNA: Yeah, absolutely. 

AMY: Talk to me a little bit about that. 

JENNA: Yeah. So when you asked me, Okay, what other industries might benefit?,” I truly think any industry can benefit from starting a podcast. When you think about it, podcasting spans industries, and there are niches within each category just waiting to be filled with your expertise. And so I want to run through the main categories that are on Apple Podcasts, and I want for you to listen in case any of them sound aligned with what you do. And keep in mind, too, that there are these subcategories to all of these parent ones, so there are even more specific spots that your show could land.  

So there's comedy, society and culture, business, true crime, sports, health and fitness, religion and spirituality, arts, education, history, TV and film, science, technology, music, kids plus family, leisure, fiction, government. And so something tells me that whatever you do falls into one of these parent categories, and it would likely shine in one of the subcategories, which I think is just so cool. 

AMY: Okay. I'm going to tell you a little secret. If I had five hours extra each week, I would start a truecrime podcast. They’rmy favorite. 

JENNA: Mm-hmm, yes! 

AMY:  If I could do all the research and tell the stories like Crime Junkie, which is my favorite podcast, I would do it. What sector would you choose? If you could do another podcast, had the time, really wanted to do it, what other category would you choose? 

JENNA: I’m so embarrassed to tell you this, but it would be— 

AMY: I don’t even know what you’re going to say. 

JENNA: It would 100 percent be dissecting shows like The Bachelor or Real Housewives 

AMY: Really?! 

JENNA: Oh my gosh. I listen to those all the time.  

AMY: Okay, I did not know that, but I would love a show like that. That would be so fun. 

JENNA: If I were to ever start a side business, what I would want to do is coach anyone that’s on TV that gets a platform and teach them how to use their platform well, after their publicity has died down. That’s literally, like, my dream side business. 

AMY: That’s a really good one. That’s a really good one. 

If you all are listening, I want you to DM me on Instagram and tell me, if you didn’t have a podcast based on your business, what would be your passion project— 

JENNA: Yes. 

AMY: —or your guilty-pleasure podcast that you would create? That would be fun to know. I want to hear some of those.  

Okay. So let's talk about a topic that is near and dear to both of our hearts, and that is list building. So how do you use your podcast as a list builder? And really, I'd love to know how you used it as a list builder right when you were starting out, when you didn’t have tons of listeners, and then how you use it now as well as a list builder, if that looks different.  

JENNA: Ooh, yes. Okay, I love this question. So, earlier, when you asked me how podcasting had transformed my business, I wanted to shout this piece from the rooftops, but I personally like to build a little bit of suspense, and I knew that you would be willing to stick with this. So from the very beginning, we realized that podcasting could be this huge way to convert listeners into subscribers, and it’s actually super simple. So the easiest way to do this is through what you and I call content upgrades, or an additional resource that will further the journey of the listener on a topic that they're currently interested in. 

So, for example, if I were to record an episode all about how to boost your Instagram engagement, a content upgrade that someone could opt in for would be a free download on the five apps I use daily for my Instagram strategy. And so basically, when a listener has hit Play on an episode, they're usually invested in the topic at hand. And so if you have some sort of freebie or an additional resource that’s aligned with that topic, it’s this easy invite for them to get their hands on it and to simultaneously join your email list, where you can then serve them even more goodness on the topic. 

And so if we go back to your question about how I use my podcast to grow my list then versus now—this is a good one. I'm kind of cringing telling you this, but full disclosure—so I actually made a huge mistake at the beginning that I don't want your listeners to make. So when I first started out with my podcast, I would try to create a new freebie for every single episode. So I'd record the episode, and then I asked myself, Okay, what else can I create that's aligned with that topic? And I was creating so much content. And in one year alone, I created over fifty different opt ins. 

AMY: Oh, I can relate. I made the same mistake. It sounded great at the beginning, though, right? It sounded like a great strategy. 

JENNA: So much work. And not just creating that opt in, but you’re creating the landing page, the confirmation email. You know what I'm talking about.  

AMY: Yes. 

JENNA: It is insane. And so after a year of utter craziness and a little bit of chaos, I got a lot smarter. And I kind of realized that we cover these five main themes on our show. So no matter what category your show falls in, you're likely going to have kind of like pillars to your brand, to your show. So I usually cover social-media-, finances-, email listbuilding, branding-, and lifestyletype topics. And so I took a look at all the freebies that I'd created, and what I ended up doing is I built out separate pages that housed our top opt ins, or content upgrades, as well as the paid offers that accompany them if someone was ready to take that next step with me.  

So, for example, let's say I had an episode on Instagram. I could send someone to my landing page. If you want to see what the page looks like, you could go to And when they get to that landing page, they can basically see my top Instagram content upgrades. They can also do things like take an Instagram quiz or watch a webinar where they can dive deeper into the strategy and see if my paid program is a fit for them. So we basically created different landing pages on those main pillars of my show, and it served as this place where I could reach people with different content that was aligned with the offer, and that way I could focus on the freebies that perform the best and guide people to a page that gives them multiple invites into extra free resources without overwhelming them.  

So my advice here is to keep it super simple as you're starting out. Maybe you're thinking, I don't have enough reviews to make a landing page. I don't know how to make a landing page. If you could even just create one to two awesome freebies that totally align with some of the main themes in your episodes that you put out, and in every episode, you share that invitation for someone to opt in using it as a call to action, you'll probably find more success than if you were like me and Amy and trying to reinvent the wheel for every single episode. That’s my recommendation. 

AMY: Okay. Great tip. I've never heard you talk about that before. Completely see the strategy there. Way easier than what we were trying to do. But I think the moral of the story is that podcasting and list building go hand-in-hand. And I will say that here's one thing I love about podcasting, and that is that how much these episodes live on. And I know you. You put a lot of time, effort, and energy into each episode. You do your research. You write your outlines. You make it great. And same with me. We put a lot of time into them. So I want them to live beyond that first week that they're out there. And one thing that we've noticed, especially during COVID, is people going back to our back catalogs more than ever. Have you seen that? 

JENNA: A hundred percent. Our downloads are up, but it’s not just up on our current episodes. It’s a lot of people searching for the archives of things that they might have missed the first time around. 

AMY: Yes. And so if people are going back toif you're on episode 400, and they go back to episode 200, and you are some way or another list building way back then, then you’re growing your email list in so many different ways through all of these episodes, no matter which strategy you choose that we’ve talked about here.  

So I do think that’s one of the hugest benefits, I think, of a podcast. If someone said, Amy, I'm going to take away your podcasts. You can't do it anymore,” I think the biggest bummer I would feel is all those episodes that still live on, still help me list build, still attract an audience, that is the most valuable thing about my podcast.  

JENNA: Yes.  

AMY: Now, let's talk a little bit about that. And I'm going to transition us into talking about podcasting and launching, because I see a significant uptick in traffic to my episode downloads overall, like we talked about, during my launch and then after my launch. I think what happens is many people during the launch, whether they buy or not, I've mentioned my podcast during the launch, so now they become listeners, hopefully longtime listeners. And if you're listening, you might be thinking, “Yeah. But a podcast seems like a lot of work when you're only launching maybe once or twice a year. But I think, Jenna, you and I both know how worth it it is to use a podcast in conjunction with launching. So can you talk to me a little bit about your experience with launching and podcasting? 

JENNA: Yes, yes. So the other day I was talking to some of our peers in the industry, some of our friends, and someone told methey looked at me, and they said, Jenna, your superpower is in the prelaunch phase. And I love those weeks leading up to a launch, when you're in full serving mode and you're just helping people to see the possibility. And we've done multiple sevenfigure launches, and our podcast is actually a huge way that we fuel those launches, specifically with that content leading up to the launch itself.  

Now, a lot of times people are working so hard on what it is that they're launching that they just launch something, and they spend their entire launch trying to shift people's mindsets and tackle their objections and educate them on the topic. But we strategically use my show to do it backwards. And Amy, you're the same exact way. And I want to be showing up when nothing is available for sale, and being of service. And so we plan out the month or even six weeks before the cart opens on a new offer. And I’ll strategically plan out my episodes to help tackle objections and to paint the possibility for my listeners. I'll give them tools and resources in order to get them results. And then when we go to launch, they already understand the value of the offer. They've already gotten themselves results, which builds up their confidencin making a purchasing decision, and they've already shifted their mindset to personally qualify themselves to purchase the offer. And it's just such an amazing way to serve content that meets your audience where they're at and gets them results regardless of if they purchase something or not. And the best part about podcasting is what you just said. People are always listening back to old episodes, so you're constantly planting seeds to help your audience see what's possible for them and to be primed for your next launch. 

AMY: Oh, my goodness. That is really solid stuff. Like, I don't even know if I can add anything to that. That is really, really cool.  

So, okay. So thinking about it that way, I hope that really sparked lots of interest to anybody who's listening who doesn't yet have a podcast but is thinking about podcasting, because I think moving into this next section here, I want to talk about how a podcast can drive revenue. So we touched on other ways, like I think the number one, most important thing about a podcast, growing your audience and list building. I think list buildings the number one thing. But a podcast is definitely a revenue generator. So talk to me about this, because when you're first starting out, how do you use it to generate revenue, and how do you do this the right way so it doesn't feel so overwhelming? 

JENNA: Oh, perfect. Okay. So I'm first going to tell you what I did from the beginning, and then I’m going to tell you what I would do if I were to start all over again and how you can actually monetize or set yourself up for results from day one. So one of the things that I want people to think about is not just monetizing from the start. Like, if you're listening to learn just that, I'll share how you can do it, but like we've been saying, a podcast drives longterm brand results in so many different ways. And a lot of them aren't specifically measurable, but they're kind of steering the ship in all aspects of our brand. And so from driving deeper connection with your audience to getting people results for free so that they're more likely to take advantage of your paid offers to growing your email list, pre launching a program or offer to even getting you in front of your heroes and mentors and getting the chance to interview experts on your showthere are just so many different ways that podcasting can generate results for you and your business.  

Now, when I first started out, I was actually really worried about the expense of starting a show because I knew that I didn't personally have the bandwidth to edit my own episodes, and I didn't want it to take a ton of my time. And so at the time when I launched the show, I literally had a one other person on my team. It was me and my V.A. That was it. And so I decided to do something a little bit nontraditional, and I, basically, asked a company that I use and I love for my workflows and contracts—their name is HoneyBook—and I reached out to them, and I said, “Hey, do you think you’d be willing to help me cover my costs? And so basically, I pitched them my show. I literally had zero episodes, zero proof, and I told them what it would cost for me to produce it. And I asked if they'd like to become this exclusive partner with me in it. And so what they did at the very beginning is they paid me this flat rate of $200 per episode, which covered my editing, and it helped make it worth my time. And they kind of gave me that confidence to begin. Their buy in really helped me. But now, years later, we get about 1.4 million downloads each month. And so we have a much more traditional sponsor model, where sponsors, basically, pay per thousand downloads on each episode, and we have an ad agent, and they negotiate, and we get to choose which brands we partner with.  

And so my podcast does provide an income in and of itself. But if I were starting over, here’s what I’d do. Here’s what I wish I would have done. would do an affiliatemarketing play here. So, for example, this is kind of a silly example, but we love Daily Harvest. Have you ever had Daily Harvest, Amy 

AMY: No. Is it really goodI know what you’re talking about. 

JENNA: Oh, my gosh. Okay, so we love Daily Harvest. They are these healthy bowls and smoothies. They come frozen, ready to you. They are not paying me to talk about this. But every Tuesday, we get a box of food delivered to our door, and they have this affiliate link for their paying members. And so what you could do if you're starting from square one, if there's something you love, like Daily Harvest, you could present the brand that you use and love as a type of sponsor and share their promo with your listeners, and you could reap rewards that way. And so we did this for a while, and we basically got our Daily Harvest for free for months because every time someone signed up using our link, they saved twentyfive dollars, and we got twentyfive dollars off of our next order. So isn’t this great? 

AMY: Okay, this is really—you’re basically saying you don’t even need to ask permission. You don’t need to get the sponsor to pay you. Anybody could do this.  

JENNA: Anyone can do this. And there’s so many different affiliate programs out there these days for so many of the things that we use and love. You could probably refer Netflix and get your Netflix for free. You know what I mean? There's just so many things. 

AMY: I know you could do it for Dropbox.  

JENNA: Yes. 

AMY: I'm constantly getting more space on my Dropbox because I've referred it. 

JENNA: Exactly. So that's one idea. And that's a way that you could start it. And basically what I would do, like, let's say I were doing this. I would just say, “This episode is brought to you by Daily Harvest, my favorite smoothies. If you want to save twentyfive dollars off, head to this link right here, and enjoy your first order. And you, then, have the autonomy to drop in your own link, and you can talk about it in a way that isn't scripted. You can share about something so authentically. So I love that one.  

Here's another step that you could do. So if you want to take this idea a step further, and there's something that you use and love, you can actually make your own affiliate landing page and send people to that. So, for example, I love this all natural skin care. It's called Primally Pure. My friend Bethany founded the company, and I love their products.  Like, love, love, love. And so instead of just sending people to a generic link and saying, “Save 10 percent, I created my own landing page on my own website to educate people, to connect them to my favorite products, to send them to a page that looks like my own, and to share more about it. So, Amy, can I share the link just so people can see what it looks like?  

AMY: Yeah.  

JENNA: Okay. So if you want to just see what this looks likeI just love when you can illustrate an idea, because sometimes it feels abstract—so if you want to see what that looks like, it's And you can just see how you could build out an affiliate page super easily, share about why you love something, and then use your affiliate link in the button. And this is extra helpful because some companies give you these really weird referral links that are like ref*1212, and you wouldn’t want to say that on your podcast. So if you create your own landing page, it makes it feel branded and clean.  

And what’s so cool about this is these types of affiliate plays mean that instead of just getting this onetime payment from a brand, like you said, Amy, you can reap the benefits of people taking advantage of your offer over and over again, and it's a supergreat alternative while you're building your show to drop these things in places where you can connect people with an offer and be able to get results that then you can present to brands in the future if you decide you want to go the more traditional route. So you're actually building up your bank of results to share if you want to move to that more traditional.  

And so right now for my show, we kind of do a hybrid style. So about half of our ads are booked through our agency, and then half of them are affiliate ads for the products and the brands that I use and love and love sharing with my audience. And one thing to keep in mind with this is, like you said, people are always going back to episode number one. And so if you remember, the mistake I made is I took just a flat fee from HoneyBook at the very beginning. And if I had been smarter and just done an affiliate play, I would likely still be driving results from years ago instead of just taking that flatrate payout. And so, like I said, I’d do things differently if I were starting over, so, hopefully, this helps. 

AMY: This is why I love this conversation. One of the reasons why I wanted Jenna to come on here is she's very open and honest about what she used to do in the beginning, the mistakes she made, and what she would do differently. And I think it's really cool to hear that because I wish I had listened to this podcast episode when I was first starting my podcast, because I would definitely do a lot of things differently, for sure.  

But I love that we talked about the idea that your podcast can be a list builder. Your podcast definitely can build your audience and get you out in front of people that you normally would never have access to because of the algorithm on iHeartRadio, Spotify, iTunes, and a few different more platforms that we definitely have seen drive our podcasts forward, even though we haven't done anything extra special to do so. So that's huge.  

But also using it strategically during a prelaunch runwayI'm right there with you. We specifically did podcast episodes that we're gearing up to then lead into the DCA launch, and those podcast episodes were golden for us. So there's so many ways to use your podcast.  

Now, this episode is just scratching the surface. And I want to talk about something special you have, because you have a free webinar. It's called the Three Reasons Why Launching a Podcast is Actually Way Easier Than You Might Think. And this free webinar is so good. I watched it, I loved it, and I thought, “My audience needs to get on this. So can you talk a little bit about the free webinar and why it would be so valuable for anyone thinking about starting a podcast? 

JENNA: Yeah, absolutely. So, like I said, and I've been so transparent in this episode, there are so many things I would have done differently from the very beginning. And so I wanted to create a training based around why podcasting is easier, because I think a lot of times we think of potential problems that might arise, and then we use them as this form of procrastination, holding us back from actually doing the things that we're called to do. So inside of my training, I explain why podcasting isn't just going to be this time suck for you, but it's going to be a value add to the way that you show up in the world. And I'm going to show you how to get your voice out into the world and how that can give you a chance to connect with your role models and your idols.  

I still have a pinchme moment that I get to be on this show with Amy, because like I said, Amy literally inspired me to start my own show. I was listening to her show while I was in the shower one day, and Amy was talking about a new offer that she was coming out with. And I was like, “Can I buy it right now? I love her. She's built this level of trust. She's gotten me results. And so I want to show you how you can connect with your role models and idols by creating this platform that a podcast will give you.  

And then I'm going to walk you through the tech, because I know for me and I know for Amy as well, we're all about simplifying. And so I want to simplify it all so that you don't have this excuse of, “Oh my gosh, I don't know how to do the tech. So in this training I'll show you how to record, what equipment you need, and how to easily produce your own show, because so much of starting a podcast is answering those questions ofwhat do I need to record? How do I hit Record? Where do I edit? What does this all look like? And so I'll walk you through different levels of complexity, starting with the simplest, and then getting up to what I currently use for my own show. 

And then, lastly, I’ll walk you through how starting a podcast can help you grow your community, your email list, your opportunities, and your business results. And, of course, we'll talk about different ways that we can monetize as well. 

AMY: Okay. I’m excited about this because I have seen you in a closet, recording your podcast, and you have millions of downloads, but sometimes you still find yourself in a closet. So with that, it’s not like you overcomplicate this whole thing.  

JENNA: No, no. And you know what I found, Amy, is when I was looking for podcasting resources, I was never able to afford to take a course in podcasting. And once I had started my podcast and just kind of started looking around as to what's out there, I noticed that a lot of the different podcasting programs were created by men, which is awesome, but their price ranges were really high, and they overcomplicated everything. Just their tech list alone totally paralyzed me. And I started my show literally sitting in my car with iPhone headphones, and that was it. I had no microphone. I had no experience. And now our show has over 40 million downloads. And so that's what I want to teach people is I want to empower people to feel like they can actually do that and to just start where they're at. And that’s exactly what that webinar helps you to do. 

AMY: You guys, you got to check it out. Totally free. So it's 

And you know how I feel about the importance of creating original content. I don't care if you're creating a digital course, a membership, a coaching program, even selling a physical product, if you are doing business online, you have to find a way—and rarely do I say “You have to do anything,” but the one thing I do believe in online marketing, building an online business, you have to create original content so that you stand out as a goto source for your audience. So that means either you're going to blog every week, podcast every week, or do a video show every week. My preference, my favorite, is podcasting every week. And I think the barrier to get going is easier than it's ever been, and I think that at the time of this recording, we are in a time in this world where people are looking for different ways to change things up, to get out there, to find their audience. Podcasting will help you do so. So this free webinar, Three Reasons Why Launching a Podcast is Actually Way Easier Than You Might Think, 

Jenna, thank you so much for being here. I'm so glad we had this conversation. It was so valuable to know what you used to do, what you do now, and what you'd suggest new podcast listeners do as well. 

JENNA: Oh, I cannot wait to see what your audience creates. Your audience is filled with so much knowledge and insight and joy, and so just the thought of hearing all of these voices, it totally lights me up. So thank you for having me, Amy. 

AMY: It's exciting. It definitely is. So thank you so much for being here, Jenna. I can't wait until you come back.  

So there you have it. I hope you are excited by the idea of starting a podcastAnd there there's no denying that if you feel called to do one, it will only benefit your business, your audience, your impact, and ultimately, your revenue. But as always, do what feels best for you. A blog will still grow your audience and get you traction. A video blog, that will even more so get you traction and find your audience. But I do believe that a podcast is one of the easiest ways, and for me, most enjoyable way, to get my content out into the world and to find an audience that is bigger than the one I could even get just by posting on social media.  

So, yes, I'm biased toward podcasting. But if you've been thinking about podcasting, get on Jenna’s webinar. She does phenomenal trainings. You will walk away feeling inspired and excited. You'll know your next steps to take if you want to get started with a podcast. Or if you're still on the fence about podcastingI think her free training will help you to decide if you want to podcast or not. So make sure to go check that out. Three Reasons Why Launching a Podcast is Actually Way Easier Than You Might Think, 

All right, guys, I cannot wait to connect with you again next week, same time, same place. Bye for now. 

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