Listen To My Latest Podcast Episode:

#688: How To Break Free From The Fear You Have Around Money with Mel Abraham

Listen To My Latest Podcast Episode:#688: How To Break Free From The Fear You Have Around Money with Mel Abraham

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RACHEL CRUZE: “I would encourage entrepreneurs to say, hey, don't build your business using debt; build it at the speed of cash. And it may take a little bit longer, but the risk is so much lower when you don't have all of these bills at the end of the month, when you grow at the speed of how you're growing financially. And I think it's really important because it's so easy to say, ‘Oh, gosh, if I could just have more money, it's going to be better. And we work with entrepreneurs all the time, and you just hear these horror stories of people that get into this business, get into a business, and rack up so much debt that they can't even keep their head above water, and it ends up being a curse rather than a blessing. And so you have to realize that debt doesn't give you freedom. It really limits your freedom in so many ways. And so to run it completely debt free, which I know is very countercultural, but that's what we do around Ramsey Solutions really well. But it is. It's the safeguard, and that's how we run our business.  

We just built a new campus and did it all in cashIt's like if we don't have the money, we don't buy it. And because of that, there is so much more freedomI think, to be generous with your team members, it's an opportunity to reinvest money back into the company, and you really move at the speed without the stress of owing anyone anything.” 

INTRO: I’m Amy Porterfield, ex-corporate girl turned CEO of a multi-million-dollar business. But it wasn't all that long ago that I lacked the confidencemoney, and time to focus on growing my smallbutmighty business. Fast forward past many failed attempts and lessons learned, and you'll see the business I have today, one that changes lives and gives me more freedom than I ever thought possible, one that used to only exist as a daydream. I created the Online Marketing Made Easy podcast to give you simple, actionable, stepbystep strategies to help you do the same. If you're an ambitious entrepreneur, or one in the making, who's looking to create a business that makes an impact and helps you create a life you love, you're in the right place. Let's get started. 

AMY PORTERFIELD: You know that I am a girl with a plan. Anything I do, whether it be in my personal life or my business, I like a good plan. I think for me a good plan is important because I am a natural worrier. Like, if there were a competition, who could be the best worrier? I would win, hands down. And when I was little, I used to tell my mom that if I don't worry about it, then something bad's going to happen, which is a lot of therapy behind that, rightI needed to get a lot of therapy to move beyond that.  

And recently, my friend Gail Hyatt, Michael Hyatt's wife, she taught me something that I remind myself of daily. She always says, wait to worry, wait to worry. And when I find myself worrying about just about anythinglike, you give me an issue, a problem, a situation, I could find something to worry about—but when I find myself worrying, I hear Gail saying, wait to worry, meaning that is not useful in the moment. But one thing that has helped me beyond Gail’s wise words is that when I have a plan and I am working toward that plan, I know that I'm doing all the things I need to do, or if I get off track I know how to get back on track because I have a plan, so there's no real need to worry, because I know where I'm going, and I've put together a plan of how I'm getting there.  

And that leads me to today's episode, too, as we talk about money, because I found that spending a little bit of time thinking over what I want and how I want to feel and what I want my finances to look like and how I want to start the year off with goal setting and financial planning and setting these clear goals and plans and outcomes, it just feels so good. And I've noticed that waiting to worry becomes a whole lot easier when I think about this stuff in advance 

And because it's the beginning of the year, I wanted to bring someone very special onto the podcast to talk all things money. Her name is Rachel Cruze, and you may have heard of her because she's a twotime numberone national bestselling author, financial expert, and the host of The Rachel Cruze Show. Since 2010, Rachel has served at Ramsey Solutions, another name I know many of you are familiar with, where she teaches people to avoid debt, save money, budget, and how to win with money at any stage in life.  

And I think this any stage in life is important for you to hear, because, first of all, if I could do so many things over with my finances in those early years, I would in a hot minute. I didn't plan. I kind of closed my eyes and my ears because I wasn't making any money or enough money, so I thought, what's the point of planning? Like, there's really not much money to work with. That was so wrong. If I had gotten plans and goals in place and habits in place then, I wouldn't have gotten into debt in my second year of business. So I wish the lessons that you're going to hear todayI wish I had learned these eleventwelve years ago. And also, you might be at a stage where you're making consistent revenue, and there's no better time than right now to make sure that you've got the strategies and habits in place to continue with that success.  

So today, Rachel and I are chatting about money principles every entrepreneur should abide by, how to invest in your business the right way, and talk to your partner about your investment in the business. If you've ever wondered, “How do I get my spouse, my boyfriend, my girlfriend, my better half on board with me building this business, and how do I spend money, with them really understanding why I'm spending the money,” this is the episode for you. We're also going to identify which money tendency you're in right now and what that means for you. So be sure to stick around until the end because Rachel has a hot tip that will get you a quick win today.  

I love this episode so much. Rachel is real. She's honest. She's open about her own personal life and what these principles look like. And I think she might surprise you when she shares a little bit about how she looks at money, how she manages money, how she spends money. So she really does bring a very real perspective to the conversation.  

I won't make you wait any longer. Let's get to it. 

Hey, Rachel, thanks so much for coming on the show. I'm so happy to have you here.  

RACHEL: Absolutely. Amy, it's so fun to talk to you. 

AMY: It's going to be a fun conversation. And I've been looking forward to this chat because, you know, at the time of this recording, it's the start of the year, and people want to improve their finances. They want to invest more, save more. They want to look at what happened this year, hopefully improve. And we're going to cover a lot. So are you ready to dive in?  

RACHEL: I can't wait. Yes. 

AMY: Okay, great.  

First, I just want you to tell my listeners a little bit about you. I gave you a proper introduction when I started this podcast, but I love people to hear from your own words. Like, when people say, “Tell me about you, what do you say? 

RACHEL: Yeah, well, on the personal side, I've been married eleven years to Winston. We have three kidsAmelia's five, Carolinas three, and Charles is one, so we just went boom, boom, boom. So my life is just, it's crazy on that side. And then my passion, my work is I help people take control of their money and create a life that they love. And so a lot of that came out of my story within my family. I was born the year my parents filed for bankruptcy. And out of that experience, they really figured out how money works. And then fast forward to my dad's whole shebang of books and radio and all of that. And so I kind of grew up in this household, learning how money works.  

But when I went to college is when I really realized the need for this message, this need of seeing these young people specifically at that time have studentloan debt and credit cards, and they were already getting themselves in this bad place financially. And at eighteen years old, I remember thinking, Okay, I don't know everything, but I do know there's a better way. And so when I graduated from collegeI thought, “This is what I want to do. I want to travel, and I want to speak, and I want to write about the subject of money and really getting people in a place where they have a plan. They know exactly what to do with their money, and it gives them peace instead of stress. And so that's been my life workwise for eleven years now. 

AMY: One of my most favorite things about you, because I watch a lot of your videos, is that you make it feel so tangible and real. Like, we'll get into this a little when we get into some of the specifics, but you talk about enjoying spending money, and you talk about living a real life, and it's not all about these savings and investing. And you just make it so real and doable. So that's why I was really excited to have you on the show.  

Another reason why is that you are an entrepreneur. You have a business, and you've got books and products and a lot of the things that my students either have or are aspiring to have in their business. So let's talk about that entrepreneurial side first.  

First up, my question is, Would you say that there are two or three money principles that every entrepreneur should abide by, especially if they're just starting out or still working on growing their business? 

RACHEL: Yeah. So the way Iwhenever I talk to business owners and I focus on that side of the spectrum, I still use the same principles that guide me in personal finance, because the values are still true. And so, you know, if you listen to RamseSolutions at all, you know that we are anti debt, and so that would be something, a principle, that I would encourage entrepreneurs to say, hey, don't build your business using debt; build it at the speed of cash. And it may take a little bit longer, but the risk is so much lower when you don't have all of these bills at the end of the month, when you grow at the speed of how you're growing financially. And I think it's really important because it's so easy to say, “Oh, gosh, if I could just have more money, it's going to be better. And we work with entrepreneurs all the time, and you just hear these horror stories of people that get into this business, get into a business, and rack up so much debt that they can't even keep their head above water, and it ends up being a curse rather than a blessing. And so you have to realize that debt doesn't give you freedom. It really limits your freedom in so many ways. And so to run it completely debt free, which I know is very countercultural, but that's what we do around Ramsey Solutions really well. But it is. It's the safeguard, and that's how we run our business. 

We just built a new campus and did it all in cashIt's like if we don't have the money, we don't buy it. And because of that, there is so much more freedomI think, to be generous with your team members, it's an opportunity to reinvest money back into the company, and you really move at the speed without the stress of owing anyone anything. 

AMY: That's good.  

Okay. So that actually is a great segue into my next question, and that is, I'm a big believer in investing in your business. So speaking from experience and watching other successful entrepreneurs and even most of my successful students, I know that when you pay into your business, you show up to play. Like, you're in it. So investing in yourself, in your business, I believe, can skyrocket your success and fast track you past any challenges you might be feeling stuck by. So how can my listeners do this the right way, especially after what you just shared about growing at the rate of cash? So how can they know when and how to invest in their business so they aren’t holding themselves back, but they're also not putting themselves in a stressful situation? Because I've shared with my audience many times, my second year of business, we went into debt, and I literally feel like all my creativity was drained from me, all the worry was piling upI couldn't make good business decisionsI worried about the debt, and it was a place that I never, ever want to get back to. So I totally support you in sharing building a business without debt. So what about investing in yourself and your business when you're trying to grow and trying to learn? 

RACHEL: Yeah. Well, I think it's extremely important, like you said. And I think it's one of those things you just can't let it be this vague idea in your head, rightLike, I hear a lot of people say, “Oh, just take a leap of faith. Just go. You can take out a little bit more. Take out a little loan. It'll be fine. Just take that leap of faith. And then the key here is that no, I don't want you to do that. I don't want it to be this leap of faith. I want it to be a calculated approach. And so you have to say, Okay, here's the amount of cash we have set aside that I'm willing to maybe not pay myself out as much this time, this month, this quarter. Put it back into my business because I know the return on that investment is going to be worth it, whether it's a personal growth on investment or it's physical, tangible money that you're doing. And so the more you can have a plan and actually see the numbers and make that work in a logical sense and focus on the facts, that's what's going to be key. And so I think a lot of people get paralyzed by fear. They don't want to reinvest. So that fear is one side of the spectrum. And on the other side of the spectrum is just like this wildly irresponsible abundance mentality on the extreme opposite side. Like, no, everything's going to be fine.  

So you have to find that middle ground. And the way to find that is facts. So look at your numbers and know what percentage you can reinvest back into the business. 

AMY: So good.  

One of my most favorite DMs I get is from a student that will say, Amy, I know in six months you're going to be opening the doors to Digital Course Academy. Can you tell me how much it is? I want to start saving now.” Like, ding, ding, ding. It’s so good. 

RACHEL: I love that.  

AMY: Yeah.  

So I love to plan ahead and really think about where you want to invest and not just in the spur of the moment, “I need this now. Let's do it. So, yeah. Very smart. 

RACHEL: That’s right. That’s right. And it's hard, too, because I mean I know myself and I think you have to know your tendencies when it comes to money, your personality, because I am more of an abundance mindset. I am more of a free spirit. I am definitely more the ones that would lean more on emotion with my decisions. And even within my business, I have to check myself to be like, “Okay, let me make sure that my emotions are not out ahead of the facts of really what's going on, because I feel like that's where I can get myself into trouble. 

AMY: Oh, me too. The emotions, every time, if you don't keep them in check.  

RACHEL: Yes.  

AMY: Okay. So this next question, Rachel, I'm so excited to ask it because I get asked this a lot, and I only have my own experience with my husband, but you have your expertise to bring to the table with this question. So are you ready for it?  

RACHEL: Yes. I can't wait. 

AMY: Okay. How could someone approach having a money conversation about investing in their business with their spouse who's not in the business? I get this a lot, a lot from female entrepreneurs that struggle with explaining their spending patterns in their business with their spouse when they're not making a lot of money yet. And so their husbands like, “What are you doing?” Now, it could go husband, wife, either way, but I typically hear this from the ladies. So what would be your suggestion here? How can you get the spouse on board when these female entrepreneurs are building these businesses? 

RACHEL: Yeah. I mean, I think the first part is to bring them into your why, bring them into your dream, and express why this is so important, why this is so exciting to you. You know, sometimes if it's just like, “Oh, my goodness. LookI made all these new stocksand I just love it. I can't wait.” And they’re like, “Okay, good for you. But no. If you just show them “No. What I’m doing in my business is giving me life. It's giving me purpose. I love this so much. And here's my dream for the future. Here's where I want to go.” And bring them in on those conversations, bring them in on the why conversations and the dreaming conversations.  

And then number two, I would say appreciate their opinion, because opposites attract. And so if you come in as a tactical person and your husband is a dreamer and you're like, “Hey, look at all these numbers,” and he's like, “Oh, but look in the future,” you could get frustrated very easily in those conversations. Or vice versa. If you're a dreamer, you’re like, “Look,” and they're more of a realist, it feels like they just kill your dreams all the time. But what you have to do is say, Okay, I'm going to appreciate the fact that we are so opposite,” and gain some wisdom from them.  

You know, what they have to say, listen, because sometimes outsiders have a better perspective because they're not in the trenches, they’re not looking at this day in and day out, and their perspective and what they see actually might be really good, and it might be hard to hear sometimes, and then sometimes it might be really exciting because of what they have to say. You’re like, “Yes.” You never saw it that way. So I would say really do lean into the fact that they might be opposite than you personality wise and the way that they view business. But see the good in that.  

And I feel like that's what I've learned with my husband. Like, we are so opposite on so many things. And instead of letting it frustrate me, I honestly respect him enough that I’m like, “Okay, I want to know what you think here, because my mind doesn't work like that. My mind does not work the way yours works. So when you see things, you see problems that I may not see.” 

AMY: And if you go into the conversation with your defenses down and really literally tell yourself, I'm going to take all my defenses down before I even start this conversation, you probably can hear some of those things that could be so valuable, like you're talking about. And sometimes I go into a conversation with Hobie and every defense is up because I’m like, “I know what he's going to say.” I'm on the attack, and it never serves. 

RACHEL: For sure. NoI think so. And I think it takes a level of humility. But then I also think, too, like we talked about earlier, having the facts in front of you. And so if you do know that xy, and z is going to work because it's been proven, you've seen it, and they do have more of a negative spin on it, you have the facts to prove it then at that point. And so that can give you the security. NoI know my numbers, and I know what's going on. It's not just this idea in my head, you know, because I know for me, I’m like, if my husband had a business and he kept losing money for the last three years, I’m like, okay, this is a hobby. This isn’t a business. Like, we haven't made money yet. But when you can prove to me, okay, no, this stuff is working, then I'm willing to get on the team as well. 

AMY: Yep. I love it. Know your facts, and be able to share them.  

Okay. So we're going to make a transition here because you have a new book. It is called Know Yourself, Know Your Money. It is excellent. First of all, congratulations. 

RACHEL: Thank you, Amy. Thanks so much. Oh, it feels like a baby. 

AMY: I bet!  

RACHEL: I feel like [unclear 18:34]. It’s like, here it is. Here it is. 

AMY: Such an important piece of work. I mean, I absolutely loved it. And some people on my team have read it as well. They second that opinion. They loved it. So give everyone a quick summary of what this book is about, because for all of you listening, this can be used as a business book, for sure. But also, I'm just as serious about your personal finances as I am your business finances. To me, they all come together. So pay attention here. So what's this book about? 

RACHEL: Yeah, well, about probably three, four years ago I went on this kind of personal journey, if you will. Nothing big triggered it. But I learned about the Enneagram. I was taking other personality tests. I read the book Birth Order. I mean, I was just like really diving into me and kind of the self-awareness of realizing, okay, this is why I do the things I do. And so through the help of a lot of that and counseling, I just had a lot of selfawareness that I didn't have before that. And I became healthier emotionallyI think, in so many ways. I was a better wife, a better mom, a better sister, friend.  

And during that journey, I remember thinking, okay, how does this apply to my money? Like, have I asked these questions when it comes to my money? Because for over a decade I've taught people how money works and how to budget, how to get out of debt, how to refinance, how to give, how to build wealth, how, how, how. And I never really, really dug into the why, asking, well, why do I do the things I do with money?  

And so the moment, Amy, I went into this realm of my mindI was like, this is like a black hole. Like, I could just keep going and going and going. Like, all of this—it just kind of clicked for me because I've also said for so many years that personal finance is 80 percent behavior. It's only 20 percent head knowledge. And so that head knowledge is really easy to grasp. But until you actually change your behavior and you put it into practice, are you going to see progress? So the behavior side of personal finance is huge.  

And then I thought, why have I not dug into that even more, asking why do we have the behaviors we have with money? And as I just kind of discovered all of this, I was like, this has to be my next bookAnd so it was so fun writing it. I loved it because I was learning too as I was writing it. And I think it's so important because, you know, not only the good side of money, but also the hard side. I think a lot of our life problems masquerade themselves as money problems. And when you realize, “Wow, that's not just a money problem; that's more has to do with my heart and who I am,” when you can start to realize that and maybe change those behaviors, your money will follow. Healthy money habits come out of that. 

AMY: And you guys, if you love Enneagram or other assessments like that, this book will really speak to you. In fact, you have a money quiz. I'm going to link to it in the show notes so everybody can go take that quiz, but also get the book because the book is going to help you understand your quiz results. But I took the quiz. I am an extreme saver. 

RACHEL: Nice. 

AMY: Yes. I don't think I always have been.  

RACHEL: Yeah. 

AMY: I think it's easy to be an extreme saver when you're making consistent revenue. I've been in this business eleven years. Like, I would not have been an extreme saver year two in my business, obviously. I was in debt. So I've learned to change my ways. 

And what I love about this, guys, when you take the quiz is I learned that I'm an extreme saver, which soundsat first I was like, “Oh, I'm so proud of myself. But what I love is there's these different tendencies—and I want you to talk about that, Rachel. Like, why the money tendencies? Why are we talking about this in this book? And maybe share a few of them—but when you get your quiz results, right away you see your tendencies with that and then you see challenges. It's not all rainbows and unicorns just because I can save a lot of money. There are some challenges there, and I thought that was really interesting. So talk to me about these money tendencies, and maybe share a few of them? 

RACHEL: Yes. So this is part of the book of kind of figuring out and giving the vernacular to your natural money tendencies. So there's seven of them that I write about in that section of the book. So, for example, one of them is saver versus spender. You know, that's more of an easy one I feel like people kind of gravitate towards. There’s experiences versus things.  

AMY: I liked that one.  

RACHEL: Yeah. So when you spend money, do you spend it on more of experiences? That's me. So I would rather go to a great dinner out with friends or the zoo with my kids or a spawhatever. I don't care. Just give me an experience all day. Where my husband is definitely more things. I mean, he's like, “If I work hard for my money, I'm going to buy something that I can reuse over and over again. It's going to enhance my life.” All of that. 

AMY: I am all about that. I'm your husband. 

RACHEL: Oh, we laugh. Even our Christmas lists are so funny. Mine was, like, a gift card to this spa, and his was Alexa light bulbs so he could turn on Alexa—the lights can come on when he walks in the room.  

AMY: That’s so good. 

RACHEL: Yeah. So I’m just like yeah. So understand that 

And what that does too, especially if you're married to the opposite, neither one's right or wrong, but it just shows you okay, that's why they value certain things, maybe in the budget, maybe how they spend their money, than I do. And so it's a good point of reference.  

I remember when Winston and I, we'd been married, I mean, just probably right at a year. We got married really young. We had a supertight newlywed budget. And I remember thinking at dinner when we’d go out, I was like, “Yeah, let's get a drink, have an appetizer, the entree, the dessert, like the whole thing. And he would always get water. And Amy, it drove me crazy. I was like, “Winston, order to drink. And he's like, “No. I don't want to spend eight, ten dollars on it. I’m fine. Like, it's good. It'll be gone in two minutes.” Like, no, I justand I'm like, “No. Order drink. And it would always frustrate me. But now I realize no, he just doesn't value that experience as much, right, that I do. To me that's everything, and to him, not so much. So again, it just kind of gives you that vernacular.  

Another one is the question if I ask, Okay, why do you want to win with money? Why do you want to get in control of your money? It's usually two different answers, two different sides of the spectrum. One is safety, saying, Okay, I want to get in control of my money so that I feel secure, that I feel good, I feel safe. It's worth it to budget. It's worth it to save money. It's a sacrifice. Get out of debt so that I feel okay, that I feel safe. The other sidethe reason people do it is for statusand status sounds bad. I don't mean it to be bad in thisbut it's like, “Okay, I will do these things. I'll make these sacrifices so that I can do other more fun things, so that I can go on a great vacation, or so that I can buy a new car. And so just knowing your motivation on why you want to win with money is important.  

And so, you know, I'm status, I would say. I mean, I'm a spender at heart. Naturally, I'm such a spenderSo I’m like, “Okay. I will budget, but I will only budget so that I know I can buy fun clothes this month” or “that I can do things for my sister. I laugh all the time. She's such a safetymore mindset. I mean, her and her husband have been talking about building a deck outside their house for three years, Amy, for three years. And I know they have the money for it. I’m like, Denise, build the deck.” And she's like, “Yeah, but I just like the money in the bank. I just like seeing it there.” I’m like, “Oh, gosh.” So it's so funny. What are you, Amy? Are you more status or safety? 

AMY: I am definitely more safety.  

RACHEL: Okay, yes. 

AMY: But when I was reading the quizyou guys, you got to take this quiz because when I was reading the quiz, what I loved is in the challengeit said something about just make sure you're not making a bunch of decisions based on fear. Get really clear on why you want to feel safe and what it will take for you to feel safe. But not allowing yourself to make decisions for reasons outside of fear could really be holding you back. Or you made some comments in some of the challenges of, like, make sure you enjoy your life.  

RACHEL: Yeah. 

AMY: RightAnd I just thought that was really valuable. So in the book, when people find out what they are and when they see their challenges, in the book, are you offering advice as to how to really make the best of their situation? 

RACHEL: Yes, very much so. And to be aware of the extremes. So while neither tendency is right or wrong, the extremes can be really unhealthy. So saver versus spender, rightIf you just save your money constantly, like you just said, you're not going to have any fun. You're not going to have a life. But also, if you spend, the extreme side, everything you make, you're going to be broke. So the extremes are not good. Or even safety versus status. Like for me, I know myself, and I'm like, okay, I know how I spend money and why I spend money because I enjoy things, I love life, and I will just go out and purchase. But I have to be careful. Enneagram three, here. And so I ask myself the question on the extreme side before I make a purchase, If no one sees this, do I still want it? 

AMY: Whoa. I mean, this is why I love you, Rachel. That’s so honest and very humbling. If no one sees this, do I still want it? 

RACHEL: And, Amy, it’s like fifty-fifty. I’m like, there’s a super-cute pair of shoes. But I’m like, if no one saw these shoes, do I want them? I’m like, not really. Or sometimes I'm like, no, I really do want a new pair of shoes, so I can go buy it. But I know myself on that status side.  

But then the safety side, like you're saying too, the unhealthy side of that, as a person of faith, we can lean so much on that, on money, to be our security and our safety. And I think a lot of us were rattled in 2020 because of the pandemic and everything going on, that it was like, wow, what if all of that disappeared? And who I am, do I still have a grounding greater than just my bank account? And people that lean on that safety side, sometimes money can be that crutch that you have to watch out for. 

AMY: Oh, so very true.  

Now, I want to bring up the partner/spouse conversation again. And we've talked about this a lot in this episode, and I think it's important, so many questions around those relationships with money. But Hobie is very different. I'm so mad. I didn't have him take the quiz. However, we were driving one day, and you and your dad were on IGTV, and you were going over the tendencies with him. And so Hobie and I were shouting out answers when you were saying, like, saver or spender. We hadn't taken the quiz yet. We were just saying our gut reaction. Every answer was different between Hobie and I, and it scared meAnd you know how someone typically in the family manages the finances? I don't know. That's my experience.  

RACHEL: Yes. Yeah. 

AMY: So Ibecause I'm the saver and the security one, I do the finances. But sometimes I judge him because he's more of a spender than I am, or not so rigid. And he doesn't come from fear with money, and I do. And so I judge him, and I feel like it could create rifts in our relationship sometimes because of that. So because his value around money is so different than mine, how do you just make sure that you keep that in check and you don't let it be a negative in the relationship? 

RACHEL: Yeah. I think lots and lots of communication. I feel like that's a staple answer in marriage. But seriously, I'm like, Winston and I, we talk about money, not obsessively. We're not obsessed with it, but we have to be on the same age becauseAmy, I'm not kidding you, Winston and I are the exact opposite. As I was writing the book— 

AMY: Okay. That makes me feel better. 

RACHEL: Oh, I mean everything. Everything, were the opposite. And I'm like, he’s scarcity; I‘m abundance. I mean, like, literally every tendency I talk about, I’m, like, we are the exact opposite. And so I think, you know, we talk about the budget a lot, and the budget for us, which is funny, I'm the free spirit. So he's you in our relationship. He's more the safety, more the nerd, more the saver. He's like, yes, the budget to him, he loves. And obviously with my work, I know it's important. I teach this stuff all the time, so I know budgeting is important. But when we live it out and walk it out, it helps so much, because I'm able to say, “Okay, this month, you know, let's think last month was December, right? Christmas. And I'm like, Okay, yes, I wanted some new Christmas decorations for our house. We just had moved this year. I had Christmas decorations that were ten years old. And this year I was like, I kind of want a new Christmas tree. So for me, I'm like, it was this experience thing that I just I want that to be part of the budget. And so talking through it and saying, “Yeah, okay, what's the amount of money we can spend?” Now, did he want a cheaper tree than I wanted to spend? Of course. Of course. But I'm like, okay, yeah. A little bit of that compromise of, okay,  let's lower this category, up this one, and then in two months we can go replace all the light bulbs in the house, or whatever he wanted to do, whatever his little gadget is that he wants.  

But we talk about it. And so there's such freedom in that. There's freedom in that for me as a spender, because I know that there's boundaries and limits, rightLike, I know I have to say no to myself at points. I don't haveI'm not the government. I don't have unlimited money that I can just go and spend and do whatever I want. And so because of that, I've had to learn to find that moderation and to rein in. But then on his side, it may make him uncomfortable when I'm like, “Oh yeah, I spent every penny but one dollar and nineteen cents of this part of the budget. He's like, “Oh, my god, Rachel.” But a part of it's like, no, but we agreed on it. We agreed that's the amount.  

And so for us, I mean we've been doing it for a decade now. We're not perfect by any means, but I think the practice makes perfect. And when you just can communicate about it, it's so great. And this is so funny, Amy, that we're talking about it, because literally this morning, literally this morning, he was like, “Babe, I bought new shoes yesterday, new tennis shoes. And he buyshe just never buys anything. And I was like, “Good, Winston.” And so I was like I’m so—he goes, “You're good with me, right? I was like, “Babe, of course I’m good.”  

AMY: Oh, my goodness. 

RACHEL: Yes. I'm so glad you bought the shoes. Like, okay, okay. 

AMY: I love him.  

RACHEL: I was like, “Babe, I will pull money out of savings to get you new shoes. If you want it, let’s just do it.” But again, it's justI don't know, we just talk about it a lot so it just disarms it. 

AMY: I love that. Talking about it, I think, is the most important thing. And I love that you mentioned the budget, because when Hobie and I were saving for our Nashville home, because we knew there was a certain amount of money we wanted to save to buy this house, there was never a question about if something came up that we wanted to spend money on. It was easy for both of us to say, “Oh, no. We want to save for the Nashville house. And so knowing what we were saving money and making sure we are on the same page and having those conversations up front, it was easier to save for it. It took a long time, but it was easier. So you're right, that communication. And I never thought about the fact that we had a plan so that was communicated early on. 

RACHEL: Well, another huge thing, and I write about this in the book, Amy, but you just touched on it, is having dreams together.  

AMY: Yes! 

RACHEL: You need shortterm dreams and longterm dreams. And that's so funny. I hate that I'm copying everything you're saying. But seriously, Winston and I, we saved for our house that we moved into this year. Exact same story. And yeah, I mean for a solid two, three years, it was like, Okay, we could go on a 

AMY: It’s not fun.  

RACHEL: —really big vacation. Yeah. We could go on a big vacation or just take a weekend getaway, okay. But together, we’re like “No. We have this goal together.” And honestly, moving into that home, knowing that we hit our financial goalsI'm not kidding, it was probably as much fun and exhilarating in a totally different way than actually moving into the home. We looked at each other so many nights, and we were like, “Babe, we did that. We did that together.” It just brings a level of unity, and when couples are not on the same page financially and they're not dreaming together, you miss so many opportunities to create such a rich marriage. So it's vulnerable. It's scary. But combine the finances, combine some dreams, and have shared vision together as a couple, and it will. Those times of sacrifice, it's so much easier when you're on the same page. 

AMY: Ah, such a great point. I'm so glad you brought that up. Yeah.  

Guys, this book is incredible. There's so many nuggets like what we've shared here. So, Rachel, tell people where they can grab the book Know Yourself, Know Your Money. 

RACHEL: Yes. Anywhere books are sold, so have at it. 

AMY: Easy. 

RACHEL: Anywhere on the Internet. Yep. Any bookstore, anywhere. 

AMY: I'm going to link to it in the show notes, of course, as well as that quiz.  

But before I let you go, one more question. If you were to share one hot tip that would get my listeners a quick win, something they could implement right now or today around their finances, what would you share? 

RACHEL: I would say have goals—so this could be the big dream that we just talked about, of maybe a new house, or your monthly goal, which is your budgetand have it visual. Write it out. Write out the budget, see the numbers, don't have it in your head. Write out that dream. Write out that goal. Have things visual. 

AMY: Visual. I love it. I'm a huge believer in that.  

Rachel, this has been such a treat. I absolutely loved this conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the show.  

RACHEL: Absolutely. Amy, thanks for having me.  

AMY: All right, one more thing. Where can people go to find out more about you? 

RACHEL: Yes., or I’m on all social media, and my podcast is The Rachel Cruze Show. 

AMY: Perfect. Thanks again, friend. 

I mean, she's such a freakin pro, right? If I had to choose my two favorite things about this interview, I would choose, one, how Rachel lays out her information in such simple, relatable terms; and two, I love how she shares what this looks like in her life, because every time I talk to Rachel, she surprises me in terms of her honesty and her realness about how she looks at money, how she spends money, how she acts around money, how different her money principles are from her own husbands. I think it's refreshing, and it just makes this all feel doable, and it makes me want to have more conversations, better conversations with Hobie about our money, because I know, like she said, that communication is key.  

So I would love to hear your biggest takeaways too. So DM me, post on Instagram, let me know what you thought about this episode. Are you going to have one of those maybe awkward, maybe hard, maybe very important conversations with your significant other about money as well? I think that's one of my biggest takeaways. It needs to happen.  

Okay. So I hope you loved this episode as much as I have. I can't wait for you to set some goals, get really clear about what 2021 looks like for you in terms of your finances, both personal and professional.  

If you love this week's episode, be sure to come back next week because I know you're going to go crazy over what we're going to cover next week as well.  

Thanks for joining me here. I'll see you next week, same time, same place. Bye for now.