Transcript: 3 Keys to Understanding Your Audience to Increase Sales (with Pam Hendrickson)

July 31, 2014

AMY PORTERFIELD: Hey there! Amy Porterfield here and welcome to  another edition of the  Online Marketing Made Easy Podcast. Now, the  last time I recorded, I was in my old condo and I was covered with boxes. Meaning, boxes were all around me because we were  just getting ready  to move into what  I’d like to call our dream home. 

We are now officially in the new house and I couldn’t be more excited.  If you’ve ever waited and waited and waited and saved and saved and saved to do something in your life and  you finally get  to do it, you know  firsthand how  it feels to finally accomplish  a big goal like that.  And buying this house was a huge  goal for me and my husband, Hobie. So it’s just an exciting time. 

Now, I’m kind of in a makeshift office right now. We quickly got my podcasting equipment up and running because I had an interview to do today. And so, everything is a little bit of a mess at the new place  still but still, I couldn’t be happier. So I just want to let you know,  we  have officially moved the headquarters. Porterfield headquarters is in a new area literally ten minutes away from the  old place  but it feels like a world away.   So that’s  kind of an exciting thing. 

So here’s the deal. Today, we are going to be diving in to a strategy, a specific strategy that will help you determine what your core customer wants and needs. Now, here’s the deal. If you’re anything like me, this is one area that  you might have struggled with along the way. 

It’s not  always  easy  and  it’s a bit overwhelming. It  actually  frustrates me  at  times, at least  it did in my early years.  So that’s  why I’ve invited my good  friend,  and  I mean it, she’s a truly good  friend  and  I’ll tell you why, Pam  Hendrickson   on the show today. 

Pam is going  to break  down  a strategy to help you find out  what  your audience wants   and needs. Now before   we get  to  that,   I got  to tell you,  Pam  and   I go way, way back.  She actually  was the  very first one  to interview  me and  she  hired me  for my first position at Robbins  Research International, which  is just  a fancy name for the Tony Robbins Company. So she was my first big boss. 

I have spent hours  and  hours  and  hours  that  equates to years  and  years  and years with  Pam  on  the  road  travelling  the  world,  creating content that Tony  uses on stage and in his programs and products. 

Now, Pam was with Tony almost 20 years. I always  say she’s like his right-hand woman but she did a  lot  of  amazing, amazing things to  help  him  build  the business he has today. Now, she  wouldn’t give herself  all that  credit  but  I sure would because I have  seen  her  work.  So she  definitely  is a very  unique  individual in terms of what   she   knows  and  what   she   can  do with content. So that’s  why I’ve always been impressed with her work. 

Now, Pam has  always  been  a mentor and  a teacher to me from day one but I also consider her  a great  friend  now that  we’ve both  left corporate. We still stay in touch, we’re great friends, and we talk shop all the time meaning, business, business, business which is kind of my favorite topic. So let me get official here because I really want you to understand Pam before we bring her on. 

So Pam  has  been   producing, launching  and  marketing highly profitable   products for  many  of the  top  names in the  personal and  professional development industry for over 20 years. In addition to  consulting with  entrepreneurs, celebrities, and CEOs, Pam spent almost 20 years at Robbins Research International where she worked directly with Tony Robbins as the Executive Vice-President of Content and Product Development. Pretty cool, right? 

Pam is also a bestselling author along with her colleague, Mike Koenigs of Make, Market, Launch It,  the   ultimate   product creation system for turning   your ideas into income. Now, what’s neat about Pam is she is also magna cum laude graduate of Brown University and she has grown her consulting and product development business to seven figures in just under two years. 

This past  year,  she  received  a 2103 Bronze Stevie Award for Female  Entrepreneur of the Year and also for Woman of the Year. Pretty impressive if you ask me. So 

here’s  the  deal. She has  a very fancy background, a great  education, now here’s what I truly love about Pam. She is real,  she  is honest, and  she  is the  first person that will tell you about all of the mistakes she made along the way. 

So she may have a fancy degree and a  really  amazing resume but  she still extremely genuine and she is there just  to  help  you.  You’ll  see this  in  the interview. She just wants people to  really  be  able  to  make an  impact with whatever business that they’re  in.  And I love  that   about   Pam.  So I would  not waste any more time. Let’s go ahead and jump in. 

Pam, thank you so much for being here.  This is truly a treat. 

Pam: Thank you so much, Amy. It’s a treat  for me back. And we’ve been  friends for a long time and it has just been wonderful to watch all the great things that you’re doing and I appreciate the opportunity to connect with you and your community. 

Amy: What’s so cool, I haven’t really said the story here inside my intro, at least I mentioned it a little bit but as  everyone listening  here  knows,  Pam and  I used  to work together with  Tony  Robbins. And Pam  hired  me.  You were my  first  boss there at Tony Robbins for a long time. But this is what’s crazy, Pam. You’re in your home   office  right  now. I’m in my home   office.  And years   ago,   and  it doesn’t seem that long ago, we were working our tails off together at corporate. 

Pam: I know. And I think about that so much because I’m so grateful for that experience and I think it’s something hopefully that people can  relate to  is just working at a  job  and thinking, “Oh my gosh! How am  I going  to  transition into having my own business?” And it is, it’s often a bumpy transition, right? 

Amy: Yes. 

Pam: But it’s the  benefit  of just  being  able  to schedule your time,  how you want it and do what you want to do and call the shots in your own business is just amazing. 

Amy: I love that  you said that  you don’t take it for granted and you’re so thankful for the time we had in our environment when we  were working  with  Tony because so much of what I do in my business and  how  I run  a business is because of what I learned working there. And also, I have to give you credit here, how I created my content, how I do my training courses, how  I put  my outlines together, all from you. If you guys don’t know, 

Pam is a master at  putting content together. So I got  to  give  you  kudos for that, Pam because I wouldn’t have this success I have in terms of the content I create without your just teaching me everything you know. 

Pam: Well, I appreciate that. Thank you for that. And I often like to call my career 4,827 mistakes I made and help other people not make  them. And I think – and also, we definitely learned a lot by making mistakes and it’s  one  thing  I appreciated about you is just – and I think that’s a success principle for business is not being afraid to make  mistakes and  you’ve just always been  somebody to go for it and you know what, we’ll figure it out and we’ll learn it. 

But to kind of segue into what   we’re here   to talk about   today   is you talked about OK, being able to create content or products or services but why I’m so excited for our conversation today is that  what  took  me  a while to figure  out  in my business is that if you can’t put that into a system in marketing and you can’t communicate that to customers in a way that they’re really going to respond then you can have the best content in the world but it just doesn’t matter. 

Amy: It’s so true. Obviously, it’s the foundation of our business. But here’s a big question. What do  you  think  it cost  our  business when we  don’t  get  it right  in terms of what our customers need and what our customers want? 

Pam: Right. I love that question because it is. Marketing is the foundation of everything we do. And I think a lot of  us  know  that the foundation of our marketing comes from really understanding who our target audience is, understanding a lot about them and basing all of our  messaging and  our marketing and our communications and our products and services off that. 

But when you don’t have it right, what happens is it’s like there’s just this little disconnect. And it breaks my heart because the intent is there and you want to really help people but it doesn’t hit because the message isn’t a direct hit. 

And I’ll give you an example. When  I first went  out  on my own,  I know you took the leap before I did. I was kind of watching, “OK, how is it going with Amy?” I’m kidding. But when I did take the leap, honestly, I was probably over confident. 

I thought like 18 years of experience with Tony Robbins, I have this education, we know a lot of people in the industry. It’s a going to be  great. And it was  the opposite of great. I completely fell flat on my face and not only in my first product launch  but  my first couple  of product launches didn’t do well and  it was  like, it was great content but it was crickets when it came to responses. 

I just – I couldn’t figure out  why that  really was.  And I was  like, “Gosh! I have  so much great content. These products and  services are great. Why aren’t  they selling?” 

And once I figured out the why which is that I just  wasn’t  messaging them properly,   I wasn’t communicating them  properly  and  what  they  really were  to my audience because I didn’t know my audience. So the consequence is I think if you feel like you’re banging  your head against the  wall or you have  promotions that maybe  aren’t  going the  way you want  them  to go, the  first place to really look is the market and A) is it the right market and B) do you really, really understand who that market is? 

Amy:  That’s  so  perfect   because that   kind of leads me  to  my next  question I had for you which  is in terms of there are   tons   of exercises and  tools  that   you  can use to really learn about your audience, but here’s one  thing  I know.  I think that they’re  flawed. What mistakes are   we making  when   we’re trying  to  define   who our target market is? Because it’s kind of a painful exercise for most of us. 

Pam:  It is. And I agree. I love that  word  flawed  because I think you’re right  about that. And the reason I think they’re flawed is I don’t know  – and I think  you’ve probably went through similar thing  that I did which  is I was  taught two  things. Narrow your market. Really focus in on specifically as you can on a specific type of person you want to help and then we’re  all  taught to  do  this  ideal  customer exercises where   you kind of write  down  who you like to work with,  who  gets  the best results from your business. 

It’s a great exercise but  it’s really only the first step. And I think  also what happens is we do this exercise and then we set it aside and then  we kind of feel like we’re done and  we move  forward  but we don’t make  it an on-going  process in our business. 

And so what happens is it’s either   not  specific enough or it creates this illusion that  we think we know who  our  market  is. But again,  we’re just  a little bit off or we haven’t taken  it that step  further  to really understand the  pain they’re in and the problems they’re experiencing which is really the crux of what makes your marketing work. 

When you can target it so specifically that you understand the exact precise problems that your market has then your marketing is a slam dunk. 

And then copywriting and all those other things  that  I think it’s easy  to struggle with that I used to struggle with are  so easy  because you know exactly who you’re talking to and you know you’re right about it but you can speak in terms solutions to their problems. 

Amy: Oh, so true.  I think with the  copywriting,  that  was  something I struggled with from day  one.  And now  that  I’ve been  doing  this  for a while, I notice  that it’s getting easier but it’s not getting easier because I’m better at copywriting. It’s getting easier because I know my audience better. So I totally agree with you on that. 

But here’s the  deal.  If we’re not doing an ideal customer avatar type  exercise, what should we be doing instead? 

Pam: Right. So I do think that’s a great place to start. And I will say you hit the button on what the magic is for good copy which is just authenticity. I love your email marketing and all your messaging and all your social messaging because it’s very real and I know you personally. It’s a very direct match. Who you are is really the same  in all this different context and I think that’s really, really important. 

So I do think starting doing some  type of ideal customer exercise  is a good place to start. I don’t want to say, “Don’t do that or if you’ve done that,  that  is a good thing to do.” But then I think I’ve got three steps  I kind of outlined for you that  I think help take it further and make it more specific and make it more effective. 

And so, we can go through all of them if that’s cool. Amy: Yes, let’s do it. 

Pam: OK, cool. So I’ll give you an overview of them and then  we can break  them down. So the  first one  is just  a very  tactical, OK, what  are  some specific  things you can  do and strategies. I know  you’re a strategy person so we can  talk tactics  a bit. Then there is a  relationship  component  to  it,  creating  a  relationship  with another human being that’s meaningful. And then the last part is an emotional connection to that audience. So tactical, relationships, emotional, TRE I guess. 

Amy: TRE, OK. Good. So I like how – this is the way Pam’s mind works. She breaks it up and makes it really easy  for us which is perfect. So Pam,  break  down  the tactical for me. 

Pam:  OK, great. So, the  tactical is just  a couple  of things.  I think the  first thing  is just thinking  about  this as an on-going  process in your business. And so, whatever you  know about your  customers today,  maybe  it’s a lot, maybe  it’s a little, maybe you have  some  data to back it up, maybe  you don’t but  just  start  by writing that down so you  have  a place  to start. And then  it’s just  – if you  take  ten  minutes a day for a week or two, that’s enough to really start to hone  in and  make  it more specific and really connect it to those customer problems. 

And so, the tactical side of it is I love surveys so I think if you have a list, surveying your list and asking them what they  want and  asking  them what are the biggest problems they experience, I think is a really, really powerful thing to do. 

Then I think if you can back that up with some research and some market  data, then  that  gives  you a little bit more  in the tactical side.  And I think a big key to this is looking at your competition or your colleagues or your complimentitors. Right? 

Amy:  Right. 

Pam: Competitors and complimentitors. But I think  just  looking  at  what they’re doing, and chances are, if they’re  doing  something and  they’re  doing  it over  and over again or if you see  ads that  they’re doing over and over again, they’re doing it because it’s working  and  it gives you a very,  very specific way to kind of confirm who they are. So if you can do a survey, I think surveys are great. 

And social media is a great thing to do too. If you don’t have a list, you can do a survey and just put the link to it on your Facebook account and you will get responses. The market research, I love doing keyword research. 

Amy: Nice. 

Pam:  And there are  a couple  of resources or tools  I’ll give.  I know  you love tools. So one of those is KeywordSpy, K-E-Y-W-O-R-D S-P-Y so And there’s  one  called iSpionage, which is just  like, And if you go in there, you  can  look at what  keywords people are  using,  what  advertising they are  doing over  and  over  again  and you’ll see,   not  only where   the  searches are but where the money is. Those are terms and that’s  the language that your audience is using. 

So depending on – you don’t have  to be like a PPC expert   to do it. It just  gives you a sense of what your competition is doing, which is really powerful. 

And then the last one I’ll give you is just  – if you  Google  market research on whatever your industry is, you’ll find some  reports and  there are  some  inexpensive or free reports out there that I think are really,  really  helpful  just  to  kind  of understand your  market. I’ll give you  one  on  those too  which  is It’s 

So I’m getting  very tactical here  but  again,  it’s just  like ten  minutes a day and just get  in there  and  just  take  a look around and  see  what  you think and  start to confirm the details about  who your audience is. So that’s the very tactical side but just – the takeaway is ten minutes a day, look at your competition, if you can survey them, that’s great, and just start to break down the  details,  how old are they, are they male or female, what’s their educational level, what’s their income range, do they have kids, are they married, that kind of stuff. 

Amy: Perfect.  So really – I love the fact that you know people don’t have a lot of time  and again,  this  tends to be  a little bit painful  for some  but  when  you break it down  and  tell me ten  minutes a day and  I could use  some   of these tools, that’s very doable. 

Pam: Yeah. I think  so.  And I think  like I said,  it’s just  you get  smarter and  smarter as you go and  you learn  more  and  more.  And then  the  other  stuffs  are  really super easy. So the tactical one, if you  can  type  in a  web  address into  your computer, you can do it. 

Amy: Yes, exactly.  OK. So one thing that  when  you and I were  talking about  this, you had mentioned to me that there are five core problems that we all need  to really I guess investigate more. So tell me a little bit about that. 

Pam: Great. So I think once you start to understand the detail of what we call demographics about your audience which are just like I said, the age range and male or female,  educational level, income,  that  kind of stuff. Then I think the  key is being able to take it one step deeper. 

If you can  then  start   to translate that  into five main  problems or what  we call, five core problems that your audience has, these are the things that keep them awake  at night.  These  are  the  things  that  the  person struggles with that  are big, big frustrations for them, that are deeply, deeply on their mind, that’s the connection point and that’s what kind of connects the tactical information or the demographic information with your ability to connect with that audience. 

And so – and it doesn’t have to be five. It can be three problems. It can be four problems. I like to pick five because then  I think it gives you a bigger  sense of who your audience is and it just gives you more content to be able to put out because then you can put content out that deals with all these five problems. 

But  it’s really  understanding  and  being able  to  take   that   information. It’s  one thing to say, “OK, well, my audience is moms. They’re in their 30s. They’re college degrees. Their children are  under  five. They’re married.”  That’s all intellectual data. But  then to  be  able  to break that down  and say,  “OK, these  moms   are struggling with they don’t feel like they have any time to get everything done. 

They are incredibly stressed about time. They don’t feel like they’re taking care of themselves. Their health   is a big issue.   Really supporting their  relationships with their  spouses is a  big issue  because the  kids are  always kind of getting  in the  way of that relationship.” 

Amy: Yeah. 

Pam:  So being  able  to take  that  and  translate it into problems is what  allows you to really have that connection with your customers. And a lot of times, it’s just asking them. So if you’re surveying your list, just asking them, what are the big problems they face? 

You could give them a list of problems and  they can rank them  or you can ask them   to answer the  question, whatever, however you want   to do it. But being able to break  it down into those  problems is so key because that’s the foundation of the solutions you offer. 

And then I don’t know about you, but when I first started, obviously, you’re always giving me wonderful Facebook tips and social media tips and content marketing tips. But the  thing I struggled with,  Amy, was  I didn’t know  what  content to put out. 

Amy: Yes, that’s a big one. 

Pam:  Oh my gosh! And I would put something out and it would get engagement and I would get responses and  I think,  “Well, that’s  weird.  I don’t really know about   that engagement.” And I would  put  something out  that   I thought was great and no one responded. So it was like – I just felt like it was hit or miss approach and what I like to call random acts of content where  you’re just testing and putting things out there. 

And so, once I was able to really hone in on, “OK, these are top problems of my audience.” Now, all of a sudden, I know what to put out in all  my  content marketing. I know what to focus on. I can  write an article  that  addresses one  of the problems. I can put out little tips or snippets that really relate to these core problems. And it just changes everything. 

Amy:  It really does. And quite honestly, just  makes   everything easier which is a huge bonus of course in itself. So this is good. So we talk about tactical. So does tactical include the  five core problems? 

Pam: Yes, I would because any tactical is just anything informational about your market. It includes starting to understand the problems. And then the other two steps are really going to help you hone in on those five core problems. 

Amy: OK, perfect. So tell me about  number two then. 

Pam: OK. Number two – so we talked about tactical. Number two  is R for relationships, and this is where you are amazing at this. 

Amy: Oh, thanks. 

Pam: But what relationships – I’ll tell you why so you know where  I’m going with this. But it’s creating and cultivating relationships with  your  audience is what allows you to really confirm or take it one step deeper. 

So it’s kind of like the whole – let’s say I’m at the gym. OK, I haven’t been  to the gym in a while. But let’s pretend that  I’m at  the  gym and  somebody just  ask me to take  a little survey where  I fill out a little information about   myself, they’re going to understand something about me. 

There’s a difference between that  and  a mom getting  on a step  climber next to me where  we start  talking about  what  we’re experiencing and  what  is like to have children and the challenges that we’re struggling with. 

So it’s by cultivating the relationships, and  it’s one of the things I love about social media is that people will share. They’ll tell you what’s going on. But it’s deeper than that.  It’s going to events and it’s taking any opportunity you have  to get in front of your customers, get in front of your audience or your market  and even other people, other colleagues and other competitors or complimentitors in your field and talking to them all about what’s going on and what they’re experiencing and just asking them and then listening to what they have to say. 

And it’s one of the things I really watch how you built your business early on. You still do this. You’ve always been  wonderful about  connecting with your audience but you go to events. 

Amy: Yes. 

Pam: You’ll go and you’ll participate and  you’ll network  and  you’ll meet  people and you’ll follow up and you really cultivate those relationships. And I think – so often, we know it’s important but we don’t  do  it  because we  get busy  or whatever else happens. 

It’s such  a key thing  to moving  your business forward. And I really think it was one of the really good strategic things that you did early on which was  just cultivate relationships and really listen to what people were  struggling with and what they wanted. 

Amy: That’s so true. And two things  you said here  that  I really want to highlight and one being that having those conversations with people, I love that  example, you could  take  a survey  at  the  gym  and  tell them  what  you think  or you can get on a stair  climber and  talk to the  person next  to you and  you could really learn a lot about just them in general. And so, social media allows you to do that. 

Now, there’s a lot of talk that Facebook organic  reach  is down and no one is seeing your posts and all that stuff. And there  is some truth to it. But here’s the deal. What about the people that are seeing your post? Are you reaching out to them? Are you asking them questions? Are you listening to them? We don’t need the  masses. We don’t need a million people  to tell us  what  they  think  in order for us to really understand our audience. Would you agree? 

Pam:  That’s such a great  point,  Amy. And I’d actually like to ask you a question if I can. 

Amy: Yeah. 

Pam: Because you’re so good about  this, is so I know one of the things  that  is hard  is sometimes it can feel difficult to make  the  time to do this not just  online but going to events and  meeting people. So, I would love to just  hear your mindset about how you approach that especially when you were building your business and how you approach – just how you approach in your business. 

Amy:  You are  the  first person that  made   me  aware   of – Pam  and  I, we always eat sushi. So we  are doing  sushi  one  night  and  you  would  said  that about, “When  you first started, Amy, you went   to  a lot of events and  I think  that   helps you.” And you’re so right. 

In my first let’s say, two years, I went to so many different  types  of events. So either  events that  had my ideal audience at the  event  or events that  had my peers so I could learn about  what they’re doing and find out what’s working for them and what’s not working and all that 

good stuff. 

So I was  really  strategic. And I will say  it was  exhausting. It  was  a  lot of travel.  Here, we left Tony Robbins where  we travelled  our  tails off and  then  I get  out  into  my own business and now I’m still on a plane most of that first year. However, you’re 

definitely right. That made a huge impact. I was able to get out there and see people. Look them in their eyes and understand what it is that they’re frustrated about, what’s keeping  them  up at night, and really listening. Plus, it kind of puts you on the  map. When people see you online,  that’s one  thing.   When they meet people in person, it’s almost like you have a fan for life if you’re genuine and you actually connect with them. 

So that definitely made a huge difference. Now, I will say, now that I’ve been at it for a while, I am trying to get on the road  less. However,  I would never  stop going to some strategic events because I think it makes a huge difference in making sure I continually understand what my audience needs. And there’s no better place to do that than  in event where  they’re learning  let’s say social media or they’re learning list building or whatever. You hear  a lot of good  conversations as you’re sitting waiting for the next speaker kind of thing. 

Pam: That’s great. I love it Amy. And I think it’s – nothing replaces – I think it’s almost like the paradox of the more technology takes over our lives, the more important it is that we continue that face to face,  belly to belly really personal contact interaction. And it may not be  possible to go to all the  events that you went to but I think picking a couple of strategically or even just locally. 

I mean you can  start just  going  to  Chamber of Commerce events and  there’s usually  Rotary  Clubs in every  town  and  just  get  out  there. You can  get  a little bit of experience speaking that  way. But I do, I think those  relationships are  key. So I love that. 

Amy:  Yes. And I will add  to that and  then   we’ll jump  to the  third.  But I’ll add that  it was never  easy  and I’m not very comfortable in a crowd and  although some people  would think I’m an  extrovert, I am  definitely  not.  So it was  difficult to start those   conversations and  it was difficult to get  up on stage for the  first time and all that good stuff. 

But I am  a firm believer  that   you’ve got  to  be  uncomfortable some  of the  time in order to stretch yourself. And I know Pam you would agree with that, right? 

Pam: No question about it. And I think sometimes too, it’s that we’re uncomfortable that makes it relatable and it’s something I think you and I have a big point of connection about is that it wasn’t all flowers  and  roses and unicorns and rainbows when I started my business. And I know you went with your … 

Amy: No. 

Pam:  … business too.   But I think  it’s when   we’re not  afraid  to  talk  about   that. And that’s really taking  the  relationship stuff  one  step  further   is getting   to know and  really  talking  to your  audience to  understand what   their  problems are   but then being willing to share yours too. It’s just – it’s real. It’s what creates a real relationship. 

Amy: It’s so true. Now, here’s the deal. Once people  start  to do the tactical and they start interacting with their customers more, most  of us are  thinking,  “OK, we’re ready to jump in. Let’s do this.” But we’re actually missing that third point which is really crucial to this whole strategy here. So talk to me about that third point. 

Pam: Great. And that’s the E, the emotional side of it. So there’s tactical, there’re relationship, and then you’ve got to take it one step further which is the E, the emotional. And the emotional is really  kind of the opposite of the tactical. The tactical, you’re not thinking about it,  you’re  not  feeling  anything,  you’re  just gathering information. 

The emotional is the  opposite. It’s all feeling.  And I really have  to credit.  I had  a friend  of mine  coached me  on  this.  Well actually,   I did a lot of work with  Frank Kern, who is a well- known  internet marketer, I know you know  Frank  as  well, early on in my career. And Frank really taught me to do some exercises to really create empathy and really associate with my target audience. 

But I had a friend  one  day  and  we were  talking and  we came  about  this  idea of, you know what, just  sit down  and  take  20 to 30 minutes, get  quiet.  It can  be a walk outside. It can be sitting  in front of a fireplace,  whatever is meaningful to you and  just think and  associate and feel what   your target audience is feeling. And I know that  might  sound   a little out  there, a little esoteric   or a little weird. But it’s really feeling what  they’re feeling at a level where  you start  to experience it. 

And I tell you, it was working on a product  launch.  And of course, the  first thing I do when  I create any offer,  any launch  is you sit down  and  you figure out  who the audience is and then you start to figure out  the core  message of that audience. 

So what I did before even  really got to the  messaging part  was I just sat  down and  I just started thinking  about my target audience and  this  problem that I knew they had.  And oh my goodness, Amy, as I did this, I got to the point where I started to cry. I mean I could literally picture and feel this person sitting on their sofa at night thinking  about  their problem, them  getting  emotional about  it and the  pain  that they’re  in. And it was  just  this profound, profound experience but it’s like you know and you’re there and it’s the fastest way out of stress is to really think about another person, right? 

It’s like I know with kids, right? For me, I can be stressed about something in my business but  I have two  little boys.  One  of them comes   running   in and  they’re hurt  or they  have  a problem, everything else  melts  away  and  you’re just  focused on them. 

Well, it’s the same thing with your audience. And so taking that time to really feel what they’re feeling and letting yourself  go there  is so powerful  because then when  you sit down to write whether it’s a blog post  or a Facebook  post  or an offer, whatever it is, the sales letter or sales page, you know exactly what to say because you’re in there. You’re literally in their shoes. 

And so, getting  in that  habit,  you don’t have  to do it at that  level every time you sit down  to write but if you do it even  one  time at that   level then   it’s in your body, so to speak. Like you know what  they’re feeling and  then  when  you sit down and get  to work, it’s a completely different  experience. And then  you just kind of make it part of your ritual. You just associate to what they’re feeling when you sit down to write. 

Am I getting weird or is this making sense? 

Amy:  No, this  is actually – I just  kind of had  a little bit of an  aha   moment with this where I’ve never  done this deliberately meaning, this emotional side. And this is kind of big. This is the kind of a little bit out there, something that  you don’t usually hear but so important. 

And I’ve got to tell you a quick little example. I’ve had the Profit Lab Program for years now and it has always been good and it has always gotten people  results. But it always has frustrated people as well. And I started to really pay attention as you’re teaching here, I started to pay attention to what they’re saying, where 

they’re struggling, where they’re getting stuck, why they’re  not  getting the big results   I wanted, and   I started to  feel it because I was  getting   stressed for them like, “What is going  on?  I have  this great program and  I just  feel their  angst and their confusion.” 

So I went  back to the  drawing  table  with all those  emotions and feelings  that they were feeling and I rearranged the program. I made it better and  made it easier  to follow. And the feedback has  been  amazing. I’m not saying this to toot my own horn.   I’m saying  that   I get it. Like I finally felt it and  it made   me do better work, so perfect example, Pam. I love that. 

Pam:   Yeah. And I think  sometimes for me,   it’s like – you know  this  because you and I have stayed up very late into the night working on … 

Amy: Oh my God! 

Pam:  … still in corporate, we spent many nights together. I probably went through greater times spending more late nights  with you than  my husband. So you and I spent so many of these late  nights together and  kind of like went through these frustrations and stuff. 

But I think what  happens sometimes is that  you know me pretty  well and  you know that I can be pretty good at beating myself up and knowing my flaws and being way too familiar with my flaws. 

Amy:  Right. 

Pam: So, what happens I think is because I’m already beating myself up, then to kind of start to feel about what might not be right with my customers is like it’s almost more than you can handle. You know what I mean? 

Amy: Yes, I do. 

Pam: So it’s just kind of realizing, “You know what?  It’s just not about  you. It’s about them and  it’s about who you’re here to help and  who you’re here to serve.” And it’s so ironic because we get into business because we want to help. We want  to save  people  from having to learn  what  we had to learn  or making the mistakes we had to make or going through whatever it is we had to go 

through. And so I think it’s kind of when we can get out of our own way, and be willing to really emotional feel that  and associate to that,  that’s when  I think the real power happens. 

Amy: Yes. And this is hard for me sometimes but step away from the ego side of it because when I get emails that say, “Amy, this part doesn’t make sense in your program or I’m really frustrated.” At first, I want to be like, “Well, you’re not trying hard enough.” 

Again, this little devil in the  back of my head  saying  that.  And then  I think,  “Wait a second, Amy. Like put your ego aside. Maybe you need to teach it in a different way.” And when you start letting your customers really give their opinion and feedback in and fears and you open  a space  for them  to do that,  I feel like we start creating better products, programs and services. So, totally on the same page with you on that.

OK. So I’m going to switch  gears just  a bit. But a lot of the  times,  my audience will say, “OK, great. These  three steps   are  great. But where   the  heck do I start?” So can you give me just one quick way to hit each one of these three you’ve mentioned? 

Pam: I will. And again, keep  it simple.  And just – I think the  big, big takeaway at the 30,000 foot-level is just think about this as an on-going process in your business. And ten minutes a day for a week or two to really get  in the  habit  of it but then just periodically, just make it a part of your process, really understanding what your customers are going through. And it becomes natural. I mean  really, I find within a week  of doing this or two weeks  of doing this,  it’s so powerful,  we just continue to do it. 

So tactically, the   first thing  is the   tactics,   right?  It’s just  ten   minutes a day  for let’s even just say,  a week.  Ten  minutes a day  per  week,  you’re going  to  go  and do a little bit of research. You’re going to go look at  some of the social media accounts that your audience is on or some  of the  blogs  that they  follow. You’re going to Google market research. You might look at, which is a resource we gave you. 

You might look at some of the keyword tools like KeywordSpy or iSpionage and you’re just going to go  and  you’re going  to look at  what your  competition is doing. You’re going to look at what your customers are saying and just get some 

data about what’s happening with them online.  Or you  could  do  a survey. Surveys  are  a quicker way to cut to the  chase  to get it done.  So, one of those two things,  you’re just going to take  ten  minutes a day and  you’re going to get that done. 

So that’s  the  tactics.  The second  part  which is the  relationship part,  just pick one thing. One event or conference you’re going to go to whether it’s local or whether it’s regional, whatever makes the most sense for you, just one thing that you’re going to do so you can get  in front of your customers belly to belly and create a deeper relationship with them. 

And then thirdly,  for  the   emotional side  of it,  just  take   30  minutes, 20  minutes and  sit down and  get  quiet and   just  start   feeling  the   pain  and  the   problems that your  market is experiencing.  Just don’t  filter,  don’t  start   writing anything down. Just feel what they’re feeling and get  yourself  in that  place.  And literally, I mean all of this is under an hour to get done. 

But it makes such a profound difference in your business because then all of a sudden, you’re not struggling with what  content do I put  out  and  what  products do I create and how do I market them and  what’s my marketing message. It creates the foundation for marketing in your business. 

Amy:  OK. So  I’m going  to  put  you  on  the spot because I can’t  remember the exact  quote but  what  did Tony used  to  always  say  about   not  leaving  the  scene of a training or – what was that? 

Pam:   It’s one  of my  favorite   quotes. It’s about   scheduling things   and  making them real.  So what  he  says  is, “What’s talked  about  is a dream, what’s  envisioned is exciting, what’s planned becomes possible but only what’s scheduled is real.” 

Amy: OK. That is good. 

Pam: Yeah. And just put ten minutes a day in your calendar. We can  all find ten minutes for a week.  Ten  minutes maybe  is 9:00  to  9:10 in the  morning  every  day for the next week and then maybe 20  minutes on  Friday  afternoon to  really associate to your customers. 

Amy: OK. So with that, scheduling it,  what I  want you  all to  do  is pay  close attention here. So we’re going to wrap it up. But Pam did something extra special, something that’s totally free but  specifically for those  listening  to my podcast right now.  And so  Pam,  I want you  to talk about what you’ve put  together because I think  you’re the  first guest on the  show  that went  out  of their  way to record   a video specifically for this audience and put together something really cool. 

Pam: Well, I’m happy  to do it, Amy because I just think it’s so powerful.  So if you go to and I’ll spell my name, it’s P-A-M H-E-N-D-R-I-C-K- S-O-N. So, it’s, A-M-Y. And what I have there is a special report that  walks you through not only the  details  of really what  we’ve been  talking about  which is how to hone  in on who your ideal customer is and their five core problems, but then  it helps you take  it one step  further  and put it into a special simple of marketing your business to figure out what content to put out, what products to make or how to tweak your products so they sell better and then how to put it in a simple scheduled marketing system that gets results. 

And so, I’ve recorded a video just for you that walks you through what’s in the special report and  then  you have  the  special report so you can  go back and look at it and be able to take action on what you’ve learned here. 

Amy: Perfect.   So it’s but I’ll put it in the  show notes and link to that at which is the number of this podcast, so just the number 36. So that’s an easy way to get to it as well. 

So here’s the  deal,  Pam. This was awesome. I feel like this was just a mini training that people can actually  take  action  with right away.  So, thank  you so much  for being prepared and really, really putting some effort into making  this a fantastic session. 

Pam: Well, thank you, Amy. It’s always a privilege to be able to connect with you and  I love everything that  you’re doing and  it’s a gift to me to be able to be a small,  small part  of it. So –and  my hope  is that  we’ve given people  tools here that  they  can  use  that  prevents them  from  having  some  of the  challenges that I know I experience when  I started out  and some  of the  promotions that I did early on, it just didn’t connect. 

Amy: Amen to that.  I totally agree. So thank  you again so very much. And again, go check out the show notes at for that special link to the 

free  gift that Pam just  talked   about. So thank   you  everybody. Have  a wonderful day and talk soon. 

So there you have it. I really hope that you found this mini training  session valuable.  I know it’s not the easiest thing to learn more about  your audience and do the surveys  and do the research. I know it takes  time but I can promise  you, I know firsthand that my business has gotten stronger and better and more profitable as I have taken the  time to really understand my audience. And that’s why I wanted Pam on the show today because she really does understand how to kind of get in there and dive a little deeper. 

So if you want to be  that person that really gets it in terms of what your audience needs then this is the perfect place to start. So I encourage you to go check out Pam’s free  gift. She went  the  extra  mile and  made  it specifically for this audience which I always appreciate. And also just know, be patient with yourself. You would not get  it all overnight. It takes time  but  if you put  the  effort in, it makes a huge difference in your business. 

So good  luck in all you do. I cannot wait to talk to you again  soon.  And all you need to do is go to and  you’ll see  all the  show  notes  and links to everything we talked about here. So just go there to get everything you need. 

So thank you so much and I will talk to you again  soon.  Take care. 

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